What would be the stratagy for this game?

[gregdillon]

Sorry if this is the wrong forum for this question...

Recently my dad went to local game he had heard about at work. He said there was around 40 or so people there. However, they played all wako. Instead of the regular blind/half-blind, they made everyone annie the blind. He said he was compleaty thrown off because it was usualy EVERYONE to the flop every time!?!? Would you just play this super aggressive preflop if you have something? Would there be a trick to beating this? He said they were all really bad, but you realy never knew what you were going to be up against after the flop.

[SheridanCat]

How large was the ante compared to the initial bet? I'm guessing, since almost everyone saw the flop, that the ante was one-half the size of the small bet. That's pretty crazy. Was this limit or no-limit? I'm going to assume limit - this would be truly insane as a no-limit game. Also, I'm assuming the game is hold'em (at first I thought the game was "wako" which I was unfamiliar with /images/graemlins/smile.gif ).

Let's see if I can figure this out.

Any player who folds preflop when there is no raise is making a mistake, I think. It may even be a mistake not to call a single raise.

Most players will have odds to play deep into the hand. Unless the board is very scary and there is heavy action postflop, you are going to want to take almost any decent draw or made hand to the river. This is almost like a hot-and-cold simulation.

If you get lucky and find yourself in this game with weak players, you should make money. But this type of game is a loose-passive player's dream, so prepare to lose to some crazy drawing hands that call you all the way.

It would actually be hard to play this game correctly by being the aggressor. Since most of your opponents are getting the proper odds for their draws, protecting your hand with bets and raises isn't going to be correct in the long run. In this game, bets and raises are used to get money into the pot since you'll almost never be able to deny proper pot odds.

I could be completely off-base here, so don't take this for much than conjecture.

Regards,

T

[gregdillon]

Yea, it was Hold'em (although I guess we could call this game "Wako Hold'em!") I'm not sure what the limit was. My dad is a REALLY tight player so I think that threw him off. It would be hard because even if you hold A-A and raise you could still be called by everyone (the odds could be there for ANYTHING) and the flop could be 7-2-10 and if everyone called you couldn't be sure you aces would hold up. Would you want to slowplay till the turn and then get aggressive?

[MisterKing]

[ QUOTE ]
How large was the ante compared to the initial bet? I'm guessing, since almost everyone saw the flop, that the ante was one-half the size of the small bet. That's pretty crazy. Was this limit or no-limit? I'm going to assume limit - this would be truly insane as a no-limit game. Also, I'm assuming the game is hold'em (at first I thought the game was "wako" which I was unfamiliar with /images/graemlins/smile.gif ).

Let's see if I can figure this out.

Any player who folds preflop when there is no raise is making a mistake, I think. It may even be a mistake not to call a single raise.

Most players will have odds to play deep into the hand. Unless the board is very scary and there is heavy action postflop, you are going to want to take almost any decent draw or made hand to the river. This is almost like a hot-and-cold simulation.

If you get lucky and find yourself in this game with weak players, you should make money. But this type of game is a loose-passive player's dream, so prepare to lose to some crazy drawing hands that call you all the way.

It would actually be hard to play this game correctly by being the aggressor. Since most of your opponents are getting the proper odds for their draws, protecting your hand with bets and raises isn't going to be correct in the long run. In this game, bets and raises are used to get money into the pot since you'll almost never be able to deny proper pot odds.

I could be completely off-base here, so don't take this for much than conjecture.

Regards,

T

[/ QUOTE ]

Sklansky's TOP informs us of the proper strategy where the blinds and antes are large relative to the bets. Hero should loosen his starting hand requirements substantially, as Sheridan has pointed out. Calling two cold preflop now becomes much less of an issue. More importantly, hero should shift the mix of hands he is prepared to play AWAY from offsuit high cards (e.g. KTo) and TOWARDS sooted connectors and other draw-heavy hands (e.g. A2s, 46s). Small pairs will probably also become playable in almost every situation, since you'll nearly always have the odds to draw to a flopped set. Essentially, you want hands that play well multiway and will benefit from all the extra money in the pot/going into the pot...

Google "Morton's Theorem" if you want -- it explains very nicely certain multiway situations when the FTOP doesn't apply. FTOP says that when player A makes a mistake, it benefits player B who is holding the best hand. But in situations covered by Morton's Theorem, player A's mistaken call benefits not Player B with the best hand, but Player C with the best DRAW. Miller covers this somewhat in SSH as well. So you want to be draw happy in this uber loose game, and in fact, when you have the best of it early on in the hand (say with nut 4 flush on non paired board, or OESD to the nuts), you'll want to raise and re-raise to cash in your equity overlay. With 6 opponents in a hand where you have 8+ untainted outs to the nuts, you have a HUGE equity overlay (since you "own" about 20% of the pot, but are "paying" only 14% with each bet).

Proper strategy in these games will lead to massive variance, but fantastic results if your opponents play poorly.

[shakingspear]

[ QUOTE ]
(at first I thought the game was "wako" which I was unfamiliar with /images/graemlins/smile.gif ).

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha. That's what I thought, too.

[gregdillon]

Wow! Thanks for the great response! I'll have to forward that on to him. It's the only big game in the area, but he hasen't been back since the first time.

[Abbaddabba]

To be honest, the game doesnt play a whole lot differently than most low limit hold em games with loose passives.

The sole difference is the optimal level of looseness preflop. You could be calling one bet, since it's in effect, the same as defending a blind except you have better position.