New to Short Handed... Am I Bad?

[JTMoney42]

I just started playing some shorthanded after a long stint with full 5/10- 10/20. This hand stuck out to me, because I'm not sure if I need to be making these kind of plays or I am just spewing...


Reads: I have no read on BB, he'd been sitting for an orbit or so, and has played slightly loser than usual appr 40-45%


Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4.40 SB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.20 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (5.20 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7.20 BB

[POKhER]

This is an ugly hand /images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Preflop is fine,
Flop - Why are you raising(I've seen a few 2+2ers raise flops with ace high, whats that all about?)

His hand:
Looks like he's got a bit of the flop when he 3bets though, but checking the turn is strange.

Fold River
I dont think you're ace high is good so the river is a fold.

My line
I'd of probably called the flop, Seen what happend on the turn(Backdoorflush, Ace is probably clean, He may be bluffing/protecting his BB).

[JTMoney42]

The raise on the flop was to regain the initiative in the hand, plus I thought there was a decent chance at this point my ace high was good, then he 3 bet which could mean a few things,

1: he hit the flop probably top pair since most other hits will call my raise and c/r the turn....

2: he has a draw and I'm stealing, so he wants to play it aggressively to fold hands like mine

when he checks the turn, I'm again fairly sure its number 2, but it could be a middle pair or a bad jack, but I can't think he wouldn't lead the turn with these kinds of hands, I think about betting for a second, then chicken out and check with the intention of calling a non spade non straight making card.

Given your raise, on the flop and the fact that he 3bets you, without reads, i'd fold this. I'd even consider just folding the flopbet here.

[Koss]

I've seen weak top pairs take that line before. They ram &amp; jam the flop then check/call down.

Unless he donks way too often or makes other bizzare plays, I'd just get away from this on the flop.

[car ramrod]

The problem with the flop raise is that if he caught a peice of the board, he is not likely folding, also, he probably doesn't believe the flop raise as much. A turn raise looks a lot stronger, but could be spewing.

This is a tough spot to be in, especially minus a read, he likely has a pair, and doesn't think you hit that flop. I think you can fold the river.

[Wynton]

[ QUOTE ]
Reads: I have no read on BB

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the problem with your hand. Without a read, I wouldn't assume that the villain does not have a piece of that flop. And this line is too expensive to find out.

I would just fold the flop, or perhaps peel the turn and hen fold.

[hemstock]

Someone said to only call down with a read, not without one. Fold the river.

[Peter Harris]

I'd peel the flop and fold the river here. If the turn was bet, then i'd fold.

[bobman0330]

This line is much better with AQ or As7s. Going nuts on the flop when you have very few outs if beaten is not nearly as good as going nuts with many outs.

[soko]

You'd be surprised how often people 3-bet flush draws in short handed play, but just calling down with ace high is prety risky. I would feel much more comfortable calling that river bet with at least 2nd or 3rd pair, I wouldn't be surprised if he had a low pocket pair or a flush draw or maybe hit a crappy pair on the turn.

[irishpint]

you have to call the river at this point because 2 of his hands (OESD and flush) did not come in. him checking the turn is a weird play...and i think id try to pick off a missed draw here w/ A high

Normally, I am just peeling this flop as we have some backdoor draws and the one overcard. I would fold the turn UI. As it was played on the flop and turn, I think villain's turn check could mean he was trying to checkraise, or he is actually on the draw. I am compelled to think it is the latter in which case I call this river.

[joda mas]

I would take one more stab on the turn. If called I would take a free showdown. Fold to a river bet ui.

As it was played I call the river.

[jba]

I fold the flop against an unknown.

[Transference]

Reasons to Raise a whiffed flop with A high HU
1) There is a strong chance you have the best hand.
2) Theres is a good chance you can fold a better hand.
3) metagame

The value of 2 and 3 almost never surpass 1. With no reads at all you can just about discount them altogether.

One of course is a difficult dillemma, there are things that support the assumption we look for:
A) The board looks like it missed a pre flop raisor.
B) There are 1 or more likely draws on the board.
C) The board doesnt fit the call range of most defenders well.
D) Villian is an agressive defender.

Obviously we can't accurately weight what all these tell us since they are all continuous variables (not either or propositions).

Finally there are barriers to keep in mind when determining if our chance to be ahead is strong
a. Remember, it this spot its 5sb to you, we can immediately give up our share to that for no further cost.
b. When villian leads into us he is folding to our raise on most boards very rarely. In order to force a fold or an incorrect peel we must typically continue on the turn. We have by raising committed to putting another 4 sb into this small pot.
c. We should consider how many outs we have to improve to the best hand when we are behind and how many he has to improve when he is behind. With a hand like A7 you are often drawing slimmer than villian is when either is behind.

The point of all that?
Reflexively playing A high aggressively against unknowns who play back at you is trouble.

A big reason why blind steals and defense are so difficult is because there is an increased likilood that your A high or medicore hand is profitable to show down and an increased liklihood that a worse hand will play back at you. Using a few of these factors is often adequate in most spots, but when HU you must expand your considerations to keep ahead. Any missing information (i.e. reads) is a substantial barrier to overcome.

This is obviously just a short version of a decision tree, there are other possible lines and more considerations. If anyone wants to add to this or comment Id be gratefull.

[Transference]

My comments on the hand:

with no reads and a bunch of draws that don't help you I fold the flop.

The way you played it bet the turn folding to a raise. If he bets the river fold, if he checks, check behind. Your position is the best thing you have going for you, use it.

[JTMoney42]

Thanks Transference, you're post is very solid, and I agree totally, of course Ace high was good this hand, but I try not to be results oriented. Now I think one thing I need to get used to is at the lower limit 6 max table metagame is no longer an issue, since I'm used to seeing nearly the same people day in and day out at the 10/20 full, when there are usually only 6-7 tables going at any one time, compared to the 5/10 6max where there are usually 20+ tables. I'm intrigued my shorthanded play and I appreciate the help..

-JT