This is why I'm still at NL50...

[GrunchCan]

Because I suck!

I'm fairly sure I misplayed every possible action here.

Some history. I'm new to the table. I know that UTG+1 is veeeery loose and veeeery passive, and CO likes to play tricky. He's not nearly as loose as UTG+1, but he's still not atypical for a NL50 player.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

MP1 ($16.50)
MP2 ($24.05)
Hero ($46.95)
CO ($18.70)
Button ($22.75)
SB ($5.70)
BB ($50)
UTG ($14.50)
UTG+1 ($14.45)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $2</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls $1.75, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls $1.50, MP2 folds, Hero calls $1.50.

Flop: ($9) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets $0.5</font>, Hero calls $0.50, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $3</font>, SB folds, UTG+1 calls $2.50, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $44.95...</font>

So if I misplayed every street, it's becasue I didn't know what to do. What should I have done?

[PoBoy321]

I think it looks fine. You've got a ton of outs against a lot of hands. I probably raise the flop the first time around though.

the board looks like you won, unless he had ak of hearts.

[GrunchCan]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it looks fine. You've got a ton of outs against a lot of hands. I probably raise the flop the first time around though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, when the action was on me, I figured if I just called then CO would raise close to 100% of the time becasue of the weakness of UTG's bet. Based on UTG's bet I figured that he would fold to the raise b/c he was probing. I'd then push.

If I made a normal raise of UTG+1's weak bet, CO would again raise many hands. I didn't want that to happen, becasue then I'd probably have to fold. I figured my best plan was let CO 2-bet, UTG+1 to fold, then me push. UTG+1 didn't get that memo, but I stuck to the plan, figuring he was giving an overlay.

[zaxx19]

Your fine here.

[GrunchCan]

Results are irrelevant. I edited my post.

[CobraGoat]

Like Po said except i would not have called this in your position and i would not have called the raise OOP. but then again im a rock.

i think raise your hand on the flop to see where you are but i guess it depends on how you want to play it. if you have a plan to go all in here you might want to play it like you did to get as much money in the pot as possible. i dont know. i dont think this is bad at all, especially since you caught an out /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I really don't see how you severely misplayed this hand.

[Reef]

pf is 'ok'. I might just raise utg on the flop to 8 b/c his bet is ridiculously small. He has a weak hand. If CO just raises, go with it. If he just calls, you can still fire out on the turn.

instead of raising it to $45, how about making it 12 or somewhere around there.

[GrunchCan]

[ QUOTE ]
instead of raising it to $45, how about making it 12 or somewhere around there.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had both opponents covered; I was putting them all-in. I believe effective stacks were about 12.

[Bukem_]

"This is why I'm still at NL50..."

Nope. You got other leaks, this is fine.

[GrunchCan]

hm, wonder what they are...

[CobraGoat]

i didnt realize he was in hijack, i thought this hand was being played in more EP. so limping is ok here though i hate to limp anything but small PPs.

[Bukem_]

[ QUOTE ]
hm, wonder what they are...

[/ QUOTE ]

Dunno, don't worry about hands like these.

But my guess, and this could probably be generalized for most 2p2 ssnl players who can't seem to move up:

1) Giving implied odds to "bad players"

2) Not value betting relentlessly against bad players-using the what hand that I beat can call my river bet argument.

3) Playing their cards instead of position.

4) trying to nut peddle 40 millin tables instead of crushing 2 or 3.

[GrunchCan]

Good post. Definitely some stuff to think about.

Well, I guess my post title is misleading. I'm not at NL50 becasue my roll isn't progressing. My roll is actually building pretty fast now. Ever since just before my Vegas trip a couple months ago, I felt like I was starting to really get NL.

Things are falling in to place, but I have frequent hands, like this one, where I was just a little lost as to what my strategy should be. I have to think my way through the hand and try to figure out the things I should be thinking of. Usually these spots come when I'm in a bad relative position.

1) Giving implied odds to "bad players"

That's interesting. Probably something I'm guilty of. I'll have to look for some posts about this.

2) Not value betting relentlessly against bad players-using the what hand that I beat can call my river bet argument.

I am guilty of not being optimal on the river, but I'm getting better becasue it's something I'm focused on.

3) Playing their cards instead of position.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that I'm 'good' when it comes to this, but I am acutely aware of my position all the time.

4) trying to nut peddle 40 millin tables instead of crushing 2 or 3.

That's definitely not me. I 1-table, sometimes 2-table. I know my game deteriorates at 3 tables, and I've never had a desire to get better at it. So I never 3-table.

[SpaceAce]

When calling a raise with someone like QJs, I like for the effective stacks (between myself and the raiser, especially) to be deeper than they are here. Otherwise, you played it perfectly.

SpaceAce

[mattw]

PF: i question the almost cold calling a 4xBB raise with Q-Js. there are two cold callers in front of you. you are not ahead at this point.

Flop: you have second pair, 4 to a 2nd nut flush, and a gut shot. and you push!

[Hattifnatt]

I like to raise this preflop first time it comes to you, after your limp your call of the raise is clear.

On the flop I raise it directly, as you called I would make a reraise to $18 or so when it comes back to you and push any non-pair turn (or a paired J) if called.

[mackthefork]

[ QUOTE ]
2) Not value betting relentlessly against bad players-using the what hand that I beat can call my river bet argument.


[/ QUOTE ]

My number one crime, good post.

Mack

[4_2_it]

Grunch, that doesn't look horrible. The only comment I will make is that you are calling with a drawing hand and it looks like you aren't getting good implied odds here since the aggressors appear to be short stacks.

As played, I like your all-in because the short stacks have to call with any playable hand and you aren't folding if either one pushes. I like putting pressure on villains, it makes my decisions easier and their decisions harder.

[c_strong]

pf looks OK to me - your call closes the betting so that's fine. ON the flop, I like the call/push so long as you're reasonably sure CO will raise. The stack sizes make a push obvious but I'd like it even if everyone was at 100BB, as a push looks like a flush draw and AK may call thinking they're a 2:1 favourite when they're a dog.

On a different point, I tend to avoid tables full of short stacks - did you especially go for this one or did it just happen that way? I like to be able to double up when I hit a hand against a donk. Having said that, calling shortstack pf AIs with anything reasonable can be very profitable /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Most of the time I fold this hand PF. However, in the long run there probably isn't much difference between calling and folding. On the flop I like the play. Either you'll see a cheap turn or you get to push against a raise. Even against a set you're in great shape.

[UOPokerPlayer]

I don't mind it too much. If co likes to play tricky, I don't what he's raising with there that you're behind. You can't take a free card on the turn, so I think if you're gonna raise, make it a push. The other line is to just call the ridiculous flop bet. I don't know if I like that because you can't put that much more money in when you hit your hand. Flushes straights and a j on the turn all look pretty scary. Preflop is fine. Overall nh.

[wdeadwyler]

[ QUOTE ]
Most of the time I fold this hand PF.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never fold qjs to one raise preflop, unless its a ginormous raise. Is this a leak?

Also, flop is fine, but you have little folding equity with the call push line, but then again, you dont need one cuz you are usually ahead here. If everyone had bigger stacks I would hate your line, cuz when you put that much in, you are only getting calls from hands you are behind, but since they are short it looks good to me.

I play 6max, If its folded to me Ill raise in any position, and limp behind limpers.

[Lucky]

I like it.

The only difference would be if you were in same card situation with with passive types wholl pay you off with a smaller pot. Then I'd slow down. I think that's a mistake some people make, not slowing down and making hands cheaper against opponents who'll pay anyway.

[ QUOTE ]
If I made a normal raise of UTG+1's weak bet, CO would again raise many hands. I didn't want that to happen, becasue then I'd probably have to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO you have so much equity in the hand, that I cant see a fold being correct, no matter what CO would have done.

Flop can be played a few different ways which can/are correct. But I generally never call a raise OOP with a hand like QJ, there are just too many you are dominated by. This is one of the few favorable flops which you want to see with your hand.

[MuckerFish]

With opponents' stacks this small, it doesn't really matter. Marginal mistake at the most, if at all. You're likely behind at least one of them at the present, but got a ton of outs to improve. With the remaining stacks what they were, it's all going in anyway on the turn. At least the way you played it, you're dictating the action. There is a slim chance that maybe you fold one of them out, improving your chances of winning a little.