herro, playalong/hand reading/preflop+flop+turn+river play

[milesdyson]

X and Y are different cards - you get that info.

So I was playing at this table when it was 6 handed, and then I went outside and lost my seat. Well when I got back I saw these two guys sitting down. Button was 80/0 after 20 hands, and BB was 70/0 after about 20, too. Then, I decided to sit down with them and play some poker. I have no other information on these guys.

Absolute Poker - 2/4 Hold'em (6 max, 3 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with X, Y.
Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

More action later - try to include every possible hand I could complete preflop with and bet/call this flop. There should be a ton of hands, and if you don't care to find the range, that's okay because I probably wouldn't respond to this post, either.

Also, I'm not being tricky with something I should be raising preflop.

any oesd, any fd, any T, any 8, any 4, any 2 pair, hmmm... ?

[jaxUp]

[ QUOTE ]
any oesd, any fd, any T, any 8, any 4, any 2 pair, hmmm... ?

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that he bets the flop with that, but I don't think his completion range is quite that wider from SB. I'd cut most 4x hands, and some 8x and Tx hands.

[milesdyson]

yeah jax -

what's the lowest offsuit/suited T/8/4 i can have here? keep in mind i really want to play hands against these guys (and you should, too).

[sean c]

Made hands - JT, QT, T9, 98, T8 or J8 maybe a mid PP.
Made hands you don't have - a set, an overpair or AT.
Draws- possible flush without overcards, QJ, J9 or 97.
Draws you don't have - fd with overcards or straight fd.

The pot was pretty small so i am assuming you have decent equity on the flop and that is why you bet.

[benkath1]

[ QUOTE ]
what's the lowest offsuit/suited T/8/4 i can have here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd have to go with 10 8, 8 6, don't see any 4's, 10 with any paint I almost think you would raise this preflop. I could see this flop action with back door draws with an overcard or two.

[jaxUp]

[ QUOTE ]
yeah jax -

what's the lowest offsuit/suited T/8/4 i can have here? keep in mind i really want to play hands against these guys (and you should, too).

[/ QUOTE ]

offsuit T: T8-TQ (I raise KT and AT)
suited T: T7-TQ (I raise KT and AT)
offsuit 8: 87, 89, 8T, K8, A8
suited 8: 86+ (I might raise A8s)
offsuit 4: K4, A4
suited 4: 43, 54, Q4+

You've got 98o or 87o. I might add 86.

You might have T8o - you sneaky dog.

[benkath1]

More action later....................this week?

[Shillx]

J6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif???

Err said J7 before...

[milesdyson]

yeah so basically every hand said so far i would bet here. sorry i wasn't around to show the turn/river sooner... so here we go. this should narrow the range down nicely. also i fixed the action - i had shown button acting before bb, eh?

Absolute Poker - 2/4 Hold'em (6 max, 3 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with X, Y.
Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.5 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, Button calls.

and two options for the river action:
---------------------------1---------------------------
River: (10.5 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Button folds, Hero makes most likely a bad call but the pot is large and BB is unknown.
-------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------2---------------------------
River: (10.5 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>
-------------------------------------------------------

[jaxUp]

I think next time you do a playalong you should try to stretch it out over like 3 days.

[milesdyson]

one day per street. genius.

Your T8 got counterfiet./images/graemlins/frown.gif

[tyler_cracker]

Well i, for one, want to know what happened, so i'm replying/bumping.

After the turn check/raise, i put you on a T with a decent kicker (QT-T9, maybe KTo if you wouldn't raise it preflop), or a pair with a flush draw (98s, 54s, etc.).

I have no idea what hand you could have on the river that would be a "bad call but let's lookup the unknown anyway" *or* a 3-bet (because surely you don't think unknown 80/0 man is pulling a river bluff raise/fold). I think this narrows your range to a hand that contains a T, however.

[milesdyson]

the two optional river actions are supposed to be taken as different results. use them to come up with specific ranges. in one i have a hand that is a crying call to that river raise. in two i have a hand that i 3-bet with. the hands are different, but i could play them the same on the flop and turn.

[ QUOTE ]
Your T8 got counterfiet.

[/ QUOTE ]
i'm 3-betting the flop with T8.

[ QUOTE ]
After the turn check/raise, i put you on a T with a decent kicker (QT-T9, maybe KTo if you wouldn't raise it preflop), or a pair with a flush draw (98s, 54s, etc.).


[/ QUOTE ]
mainly i just 3-bet the flop w/ KT/QT/JT most of the time. if i just bet/call the flop with these, i would not check raise the turn. i would also not raise the turn with less than top pair (even with a four flush). 54s is a good guess for river option one. 98s is not.

A5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
54

[milesdyson]

[ QUOTE ]
A4

[/ QUOTE ]
can't have it. i check raised the turn.
[ QUOTE ]
A5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
still not check raising turn.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A4

[/ QUOTE ]
can't have it. i check raised the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Realised. See above.

The river 3bet option.
76o
32/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[tyler_cracker]

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Your T8 got counterfiet.

[/ QUOTE ]
i'm 3-betting the flop with T8.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree (not sure if you noticed, but i wasn't the one that said this. Also, i know how to spell "counterfeited" :P).

[ QUOTE ]

mainly i just 3-bet the flop w/ KT/QT/JT most of the time. if i just bet/call the flop with these, i would not check raise the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this because you would donk/3-bet instead? Or because you would only not 3-bet the flop because of other outstanding circumstances (you're up against a rock/the board is scary/...)?

[ QUOTE ]
i would also not raise the turn with less than top pair (even with a four flush). 54s is a good guess for river option one. 98s is not.

[/ QUOTE ]

You might make a crying call with T5s/85s/54s, thinking that BB must have aces up.

You would 3-bet 55, though you would probably raise that preflop. If you wouldn't raise the turn without at least top pair, there are no hands with an A that you can have except AT, which you would certainly raise pf. 76/images/graemlins/diamond.gif also works.

Am i getting closer?

J10, Q10 or 10 9o/s.

[milesdyson]

yeah this is right on basically. 55 is less part of my range not only because i did not raise preflop but because i bet called the flop. i'm going to fold 55 to a raise here.

AT also gets 3-bet on the flop, along with raised preflop.

76s is basically the only hand i can have in option two. 76/images/graemlins/diamond.gif gets 3-bet on the flop, so it's one of the other 3.

85s/54s are good guesses for option one. T5s (although T &gt; 8) i'm folding preflop.

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Your T8 got counterfiet.

[/ QUOTE ]
i'm 3-betting the flop with T8.


[/ QUOTE ]

I thought he might have had a touch of FPS.

The pot is small and I think this would be acceptable way to play T8 against this opposition.

[ QUOTE ]

I agree (not sure if you noticed, but i wasn't the one that said this. Also, i know how to spell "counterfeited" :P).

[/ QUOTE ]
It seems like one of those words like hung or hanged.

[ QUOTE ]
76/images/graemlins/diamond.gif also works.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think he 3bets the flop if it's 76/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. 76o works though.

[ QUOTE ]


76s is basically the only hand i can have in option two.



[/ QUOTE ]

You're giving up MAD equity by not 3betting the flop with 76s.....

Double gutter flush draws are sexy.

[tyler_cracker]

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

I agree (not sure if you noticed, but i wasn't the one that said this. Also, i know how to spell "counterfeited" :P).

[/ QUOTE ]
It seems like one of those words like hung or hanged.


[/ QUOTE ]

Like many things in the world, the problem with this word is that it is French in origin /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[ QUOTE ]

I think he 3bets the flop if it's 76/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. 76o works though.

[/ QUOTE ]

3-betting a flush draw + gutshot HU and OOP is pretty marginal. As for 76o, I don't think miles would bet/call just a gutshot on the flop.

Edit: i am retarded and even after you *said* there was a double-gutter, i didn't see it. So yeah, 76o does work (unless miles didn't see that he had a double-gutter, in which case my above comment still applies :P.)

[milesdyson]

i'm quoting myself. 76s does not mean only the one with the flush draw guys.

[ QUOTE ]
76s is basically the only hand i can have in option two. 76/images/graemlins/diamond.gif gets 3-bet on the flop, so it's one of the other 3.

[/ QUOTE ]

[milesdyson]

so i had 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, and the guy just called the river with QT.

I've got two questions.

1. How long did you take before calling the flop raise?

2. When you edit, how come it doesn't show that you edited?
*snapped*

[milesdyson]

eh..

1. took about 0.67 seconds i'd say.
2. i'm a ninja.