View Full Version : 20-40 while racking up
SossMan
11-30-2005, 10:00 PM
20-40 Bay101
I just got called from a must move game to the main game. I hadn't been out of line in a fairly out of line game, but most players were new to the game in the last 30-45 min. The SB in this hand and I had been joking about defending blinds (i'm in the BB, he's in the CO and he's about to raise and I blurt out "ah ah ahhhhh" he raises, I call w/ some garbage connector and check fold on a broadway board. I raise his blind and he donkbets me and I fold w/ JTs on K high board. He raises my blind and I call w/ 76s and flop is 97x I check raise, he calls and I bet a 4 on the turn and he folds. That's our history.
The only other hand of note was where I openraised from MP w/ AQ and Chuck Thompson (pro) called right behind me and villian called from button. I bet a 744 flop, two calls. I bet the K on the turn, CT raised, we both folded after I correctly called out his exact hand (77, he showed).
So, I get red AA in MP right as I'm beginning to rack up to go to the main game, I raise an EP limper. LP calls, villian in SB calls.
Flop is 235r and I bet out saying, "I bet my st8 draw", only SB calls.
Turn pairs the 3 and SB checkraises me.
3-bet or call down?
ZenMusician
11-30-2005, 10:34 PM
call down
WA/WB
-ZEN
Call and raise the river.
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Call and raise the river.
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Would you explain this line, please? Any particular river that makes you change your plan?
Soss,
SB probably doesn't have a 3 vs pf raiser in a protected pot. You are most likely against a smaller pocket pair. I like reraising the turn rather than waiting for the river since an overcard could induce him to check, and he may have 44 or 66 with straight outs that need to be charged. I guess I would fold to a 4 bet but I never seem to do that in the heat of battle...
golferbrent
11-30-2005, 11:59 PM
Without question you need to 3 bet here. He is making a play at the pot here for 2 reasons:
1. You have mislead him by verbalizing your so called st8 draw and more importantly
2. You are getting ready to move to the main game and he is making a play at you b/c he feels that you will not want to lose a big pot right before you leave the game.
He is making this play b/c of signals you have sent and the innate human tendency of not wanting to lose a big pot before either quitting or moving from a game.
Those 2 factors he is trying to capitalize on and you need to assert your hand here. I think VERY often you are way ahead here. An absolute 3 bet here!
CardSharpCook
12-01-2005, 12:37 AM
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Call and raise the river.
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Agreed. You don't want him to stop bluffing or think that maybe 88 or whatever might not be good.
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Call and raise the river.
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Agreed. You don't want him to stop bluffing or think that maybe 88 or whatever might not be good.
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I think many would call down with 88 here, and we win the same. This compared to the fact that some rivers will scare him into c/cing and we miss our value now. I think a hand like that is much more frequent than a pure bluff.
This is why I asked sfer about his line. I've been experimenting with it for about a month now, and have noticed that many times villain does get passive on the river.
CardSharpCook
12-01-2005, 12:59 AM
That is a fair analysis, Q, but are there not many hands that would be convinced to fold if we 3bet here? Also, he may believe we have exactly what we claim to have (AK-AT) and think he can bluff us out on a card that doens't improve that range. Simply put, I think the range of hands/players that chk/rz here and then go passive on the river is smaller than group of hands/players that stay agro on river. Also, I think a lot of the hands that will stay agro on the river will fold to a 3bet on the turn.
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That is a fair analysis, Q, but are there not many hands that would be convinced to fold if we 3bet here? Also, he may believe we have exactly what we claim to have (AK-AT) and think he can bluff us out on a card that doens't improve that range. Simply put, I think the range of hands/players that chk/rz here and then go passive on the river is smaller than group of hands/players that stay agro on river. Also, I think a lot of the hands that will stay agro on the river will fold to a 3bet on the turn.
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Do you feel that it's "easier" for a player to call a river raise? I've been thinking that, but I've not discussed it before. It seems like it's easier for a player to think "well..one more to keep him honest" type of thing.
This compared to facing the reraise on the turn and knowing he's got 2 BB to pay yet. This is why I started experimenting with the line to start with.
SossMan
12-01-2005, 02:07 AM
So I've been playing almost all NL tourneys so my limit game sucks pretty bad, but a drunk monkey can make 2bb/hr in that game.
I 3 bet and he called and bet out the T on the river and I just called. He had 88 and mhwg.
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Call and raise the river.
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Would you explain this line, please? Any particular river that makes you change your plan?
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With a gutshot, you have to call a turn 4-bet, but it would suck.
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Call and raise the river.
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Would you explain this line, please? Any particular river that makes you change your plan?
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With a gutshot, you have to call a turn 4-bet, but it would suck.
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Do you think this concept applies to a hand like this (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4066426&an=0&page=1#Post 4066426) ?
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Call and raise the river.
[/ QUOTE ]
Would you explain this line, please? Any particular river that makes you change your plan?
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With a gutshot, you have to call a turn 4-bet, but it would suck.
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Do you think this concept applies to a hand like this (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4066426&an=0&page=1#Post 4066426) ?
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The turn card in that hand is draw completing, and that's a pretty straightforward fold to a 4-bet, unlike this hand, so no.
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Call and raise the river.
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Would you explain this line, please? Any particular river that makes you change your plan?
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With a gutshot, you have to call a turn 4-bet, but it would suck.
[/ QUOTE ]
Do you think this concept applies to a hand like this (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4066426&an=0&page=1#Post 4066426) ?
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The turn card in that hand is draw completing, and that's a pretty straightforward fold to a 4-bet, unlike this hand, so no.
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Villain in that hand would have bet a FF on the flop.
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