kk utg agianst tag. [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

ANY2CARDZ

11-30-2005, 09:58 PM

Villian is 16/10/2.33 over 100 hands, solid player, doesnt seem to get out of line.
On the turn I put him on jj, or aa, cant really see him 3 betting anything else preflop, and raising the turn. Whats your line on the turn?
PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Hero raises, 1 fold, MP1 3-bets, 6 folds, Hero caps, MP1 calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero 3-bets, MP1 calls.

Turn: (7.75 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero ?

Nick C

11-30-2005, 10:03 PM

You're probably losing, but I would call down, hoping to see QQ.

ANY2CARDZ

11-30-2005, 10:11 PM

Do you think this is an easy call down? Im still torn between the right play here, folding seems to weak, but it appears that the only thing im ahead of here is QQ.

ncboiler

11-30-2005, 10:25 PM

Call down. He has q/q or a/a.

ncboiler

11-30-2005, 10:26 PM

I disagee....i think its 50/50. You have to call down because of that and not in the hope he has q/q.

ncboiler

11-30-2005, 10:28 PM

You are ahead of only q/q but there aren't many other hands he can have. OKOKOK...maybe j/j still a 1 in 3 chance of winning. Easy call down.

11-30-2005, 10:28 PM

yeah, looks like he was inviting you to bet turn with keeping it at 3 on flop and then raising turn...

i'd bet/call turn, and then check/call river if unimproved.

likely has the hands you suggested, and its now worth opening yourself up for the possibility he has QQ

GoblinMason (Craig)

11-30-2005, 10:28 PM

what does the 3 bet on the flop accomplish? I like just calling the flop raise. he knows you capped pf and doesnt care. its like 40/10/60 QQ/KK/AA and a slight chance he has a set. you cant fold. so call down

shark6

11-30-2005, 10:29 PM

I could see him having these hands you beat/tie:
AJ
TT
QQ
KK
??

Ya, it doesn't look good against this guy, but you're getting 5.5-1 on a call down to the turn raise.

Nick C

11-30-2005, 10:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think this is an easy call down? Im still torn between the right play here, folding seems to weak, but it appears that the only thing im ahead of here is QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it's easy, exactly, since you're probably losing.

You are getting about 6:1 on a call down, though. And, mathematically, AA/JJ is only 1 1/2 times as likely as QQ.

I think Villain's play in the hand makes QQ less likely than the combos indicate. At the same time, you do also have some (small) chance of improving to the winning hand, when you are behind.

I don't know. I wouldn't be very optimistic about my chances, at the point when I was getting raised on the turn. But I would call down.

Nick C

11-30-2005, 10:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I disagee....i think its 50/50. You have to call down because of that and not in the hope he has q/q.

[/ QUOTE ]

If Villain has QQ, his turn raise is a pretty optimistic one, at this point.

I'm not ruling QQ out, but I don't think it's as likely as AA.

11-30-2005, 10:35 PM

meant it's not worth opening

ncboiler

11-30-2005, 10:39 PM

Why is his turn raise an optomistic raise? That's kind of a junky flop for the preflop action. He has an overpair and can't put OP on j/j. Well he can put it in his range of hands but not a large enough part of the range not to keep pumping.

Nick C

11-30-2005, 10:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why is his turn raise an optomistic raise? That's kind of a junky flop for the preflop action. He has an overpair and can't put OP on j/j. Well he can put it in his range of hands but not a large enough part of the range not to keep pumping.

[/ QUOTE ]

If Villain has QQ, shouldn't he be thinking there's a really good chance he's losing to AA/KK/JJ? Hero capped preflop and hasn't slowed down yet.

If Hero can't beat QQ, shouldn't he be starting to get a little worried, when Villain raises the flop despite Hero's preflop cap?

W. Deranged

11-30-2005, 10:53 PM

Call down and cry a lot.

WillMagic

11-30-2005, 11:59 PM

ccccccccall down

TT/QQ are still in his range...as is 99 for that matter.

Will

ANY2CARDZ

12-01-2005, 01:21 AM

Im interested in craigs response, when you say just call the flop raise, is this on the assumption that your behind, and you want a cheap showdown? just calling a flop raise seems kind of passive to me, I guess I figure I am ahead and want to see where I am at with my 3 bet. Would you only make this play with a tag, or passive player? My agression has dwindled recently and Im trying to figure out where to gain bets and where not to spew.