$109 50/100, BB call/fold

[tigerite]

Reads: SB has been been playing pretty solid poker, he's certainly not a donk. It's been very unusual to get first into a pot, as is usually the case at these things.

Sorry, I forgot to mention, this is the last hand of 50/100. The next hand we start at 75/150.

Button: 580 Chips
SB: 688 Chips
<font color="red">Hero: 1085 Chips</font>
UTG: 1644 Chips
UTG+1: 765 Chips
MP1: 2132 Chips
CO: 3106 Chips

Hero is BB with 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif
Blinds are 50/100

PreFlop
<font color="blue">UTG folds</font>, <font color="blue">UTG+1 folds</font>, <font color="blue">MP1 folds</font>, <font color="blue">CO folds</font>, <font color="blue">Button folds</font>
SB is All-In

Hero ?

i fold, but what do i know...

[tigerite]

I forgot to mention it's the last hand of 50/100 and the very next hand is 75/150. I've added that to the post.

[bigt439]

There are times when calling this is definitely correct and times where it's horrible. You've got a better read than any of us and I know you know how to translate that into SNGPT ranges. That's all you need.

[45suited]

[ QUOTE ]
Reads: SB has been been playing pretty solid poker, he's certainly not a donk. It's been very unusual to get first into a pot, as is usually the case at these things.

Sorry, I forgot to mention, this is the last hand of 50/100. The next hand we start at 75/150.

Button: 580 Chips
SB: 688 Chips
<font color="red">Hero: 1085 Chips</font>
UTG: 1644 Chips
UTG+1: 765 Chips
MP1: 2132 Chips
CO: 3106 Chips

Hero is BB with 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif
Blinds are 50/100

PreFlop
<font color="blue">UTG folds</font>, <font color="blue">UTG+1 folds</font>, <font color="blue">MP1 folds</font>, <font color="blue">CO folds</font>, <font color="blue">Button folds</font>
SB is All-In

Hero ?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think that I could call here unless the guy was a complete maniac. If you fold, you'll still have t910 after posting the SB next hand. Unless I'm missing something, this seems to be a pretty standard fold.

[rbear]

I fold this pretty quickly. Is there something special about this hand, or this circumstance that I'm missing out on? Do tell.

[tigerite]

[ QUOTE ]
There are times when calling this is definitely correct and times where it's horrible. You've got a better read than any of us and I know you know how to translate that into SNGPT ranges. That's all you need.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I was getting at. Let's put ourselves in SB's shoes for instance (and I believe he's a 2+2er, if not, well his game is pretty damn identical to it). What do we push here, especially considering the next hand blinds go up, meaning we have effectively 4BB?

[ace_in_the_hole]

I fold this in a $55, not sure how much different the play is in 109's but looks like a fold to me. You are not crippled by the SB next hand so a new orbit to catch a bigger hand.

[tigerite]

But what are we, as 2+2ers, pushing from the SB in this situation? It's got to be a bloody huge range, right? Also bear in mind that I hit the SB next hand, unlikely to be first into the pot especially if I have 900, and then have only 6BB myself. Yeah, most BBs will probably fold if I shove, but I seriously doubt I'll even get the opportunity.

[rbear]

Getting handcuffed here makes sense, especially in better games. Thanks.

[tigerite]

Handcuffed? Not sure I follow..

I have to say though I'm not that fussed for my own stack about it going to 75/150 for the next hand. It's more what it does to his steal opportunities and the fact his FE goes down to almost nothing if he doesn't push here. Also.. the fact his range is likely to include hands he thinks will do well against a normal calling range, if you get my meaning. I also think his range would be pretty wide, if the blinds did not go up next hand. However whether that would be wide enough to call here is open to debate. Certainly though, if he's any good his range should be big here, and I believe that he is, so...

Anyway I'll leave this open for tonight as I'm off to sleep now, but in the actual hand I did call. His range has to be 60% to do it, but I felt that in this situation, this was more than likely.

[Deuce2High]

Brainless fold.

[tigerite]

Please explain why this is the case and what you would push from the SB here, then..

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
But what are we, as 2+2ers, pushing from the SB in this situation? It's got to be a bloody huge range, right? Also bear in mind that I hit the SB next hand, unlikely to be first into the pot especially if I have 900, and then have only 6BB myself. Yeah, most BBs will probably fold if I shove, but I seriously doubt I'll even get the opportunity.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are 56% against any two. Doesn't seem worth it to me.

[tigerite]

We only need to win 48.4% of the time for this to be +0.4% equity. If he really is pushing any two, we lose an absolute shedload by folding here.

[Deuce2High]

I push a shitload of hands from the small blind because the big blind is at a stack size right now where he is okay for the next level and calling a push and losing would hurt him pretty bad (you would lose FE). As SB I probably push top 70% of my hands and as the BB I probably call with 44+, A2+, maybe KQ.


I'm not really a math guy and I'm sure the BB should be calling with even more hands but I don't think it's that necessary. Your stack is in a decent spot right now.

[bjb23]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But what are we, as 2+2ers, pushing from the SB in this situation? It's got to be a bloody huge range, right? Also bear in mind that I hit the SB next hand, unlikely to be first into the pot especially if I have 900, and then have only 6BB myself. Yeah, most BBs will probably fold if I shove, but I seriously doubt I'll even get the opportunity.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are 56% against any two. Doesn't seem worth it to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

well i could be wrong but doesnt icm make this a call if pusher is pushing any two? obviously, you must have run this through sngpt tiger (i havent).


i havent played any 100s but i dont think id be pushing any two in the sb's spot especially if i thought the bb thought id be pushing any two (if that makes sense). im folding this, but im wondering if an experienced player at this buyin could give a likely range for villian.

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
We only need to win 48.4% of the time for this to be +0.4% equity. If he really is pushing any two, we lose an absolute shedload by folding here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but you have to think he's going to fold his total crap that makes up much of your &gt;50% advantage. I just don't like the risk of getting crippled on a slightly +EV spot here, but I guess it's a matter of taste/style at this point.

[tigerite]

It's a fair point, but even at 60% range it's +0.4%. You can't generally let those kind of edges go at a $109. There is the "he knows that you know" argument, but I think seriously he'd just say screw it and push anyway because it's his absolute best chance of having any FE at all.

Anyway, not that results matter because this is totally read-based, but he had Q4o

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
But what are we, as 2+2ers, pushing from the SB in this situation? It's got to be a bloody huge range, right? Also bear in mind that I hit the SB next hand, unlikely to be first into the pot especially if I have 900, and then have only 6BB myself. Yeah, most BBs will probably fold if I shove, but I seriously doubt I'll even get the opportunity.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against a relative unknown, or someone who hasn't proven themselves to be good? Any two and it's not even close. That's why this can definitely be a call against a very good player. But the number of players good enough to make this a call are few so make sure you've found one.

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
It's a fair point, but even at 60% range it's +0.4%. You can't generally let those kind of edges go at a $109.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can, unless the 109s have gotten much tougher than I remember. I made most of my money from donkish plays by others, not tiny theoretical edges.

But again, there's no real sense arguing the point. It's splitting hairs now. Let's go find some donks. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[rbear]

sorry for the non universal slang.
Handcuffed meaning no opportunities to open on an aggressive table late game.

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

Fold I think. Better to push next hand (w/ bigger blinds) than call here... it is most likely a race and your hand is just not that strong and he can very likely have Ax, Kx, Qx higher than yours, IMO... but I don't call much... may be a leak of mine...

[Scuba Chuck]

Tigerite, I think the answer to this question falls squarely into the, there's a better opportunity coming up that is probably better. Even though this is potentially +EV. I think the difference between Q8s, and K8s is significant here (except in the actual hand of course).