PS, $60 Why is this A8o at CO+1 not a push?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

CO (t1305)
Button (t1065)
SB (t1620)
BB (t4945)
UTG (t1815)
MP1 (t895)
Hero (t1855)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
[color=#666666]2 folds</font>, [color=#CC3333]Hero raises to t1855</font>, [color=#666666]2 folds</font>, SB calls t1520 (All-In), [color=#666666]1 fold</font>.

I fooled around with the stack sizes a couple of times so that there was less disparity among them.

You're not yet THAT short-stacked and there's too many people to act after you. If you had something like 1200 chips, then I think it should be a push here (or at least from the CO).

Without checking SNG-PT, I think ATo would be the smallest ace to push in that situation.

[pineapple888]

A8o is a mediocre hand, very often dominated

Four players to get through

Risking your entire stack for less than 1/6 of it if everone folds

&gt;9BB means you have time to wait

[GtrHtr]

You're 3d stack. A8o is a marginal hand in this situation.

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You're not yet THAT short-stacked and there's too many people to act after you. If you had something like 1200 chips, then I think it should be a push here (or at least from the CO).

Without using SNG-PT, I think ATo would be the smallest ace to push in that situation.

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I'm a newb, could you explain what this means?

The reason I fooled around with stack sizes, and calling ranges too by the way, is it seems that I've seen worse hands as pushes on SNGPT in the same position but with stack sizes that were closer to each other. I just didn't understand it.

[xLukex]

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You're not yet THAT short-stacked and there's too many people to act after you. If you had something like 1200 chips, then I think it should be a push here (or at least from the CO).

Without using SNG-PT, I think ATo would be the smallest ace to push in that situation.

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I'm a newb, could you explain what this means?

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Sit N Go Power Tools, a program created by Eastbay.

[tigerite]

That's cos the others are idiots. I see bad pushes in the $109s all the time, so no surprise there would be some at the $60s too, not everyone understands ICM properly. As raptor would say, holla

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That's cos the others are idiots. I see bad pushes in the $109s all the time, so no surprise there would be some at the $60s too, not everyone understands ICM properly. As raptor would say, holla

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What does that have to do with my question? I'm posting some more curiosities. What I'm curious about is why SNGPT rates them the way they are rated. I don't think it's evaluating players as idiots or pros, it's using formulas.

[ZeroPointMachine]

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The reason I fooled around with stack sizes, and calling ranges too by the way, is it seems that I've seen worse hands as pushes on SNGPT in the same position but with stack sizes that were closer to each other. I just didn't understand it.

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Are you sure the blinds were the same? A single level increase in blinds makes a HUGE difference.

[tigerite]

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That's cos the others are idiots. I see bad pushes in the $109s all the time, so no surprise there would be some at the $60s too, not everyone understands ICM properly. As raptor would say, holla

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What does that have to do with my question? I'm posting some more curiosities. What I'm curious about is why SNGPT rates them the way they are rated. I don't think it's evaluating players as idiots or pros, it's using formulas.

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I misread your point. I thought you were on about others making similar pushes in these situations with similar stack sizes.

The reason is probably that the stacks left to act after were smaller and couldn't bust the raiser or something like that, or their hand was more 'live' against tighter ranges, i.e. not such a big dog. I wouldn't push a lot here fwiw unless the situation was extremely rare.

[GtrHtr]

The answer in this case is in the math. If you do this hand in long handed math, you will quickly see why. In this case it is due to the relative strength of your hand and the % of the prize pool you currently own. I recommend getting out some paper and a pencil and doing it.

I can see why the blind size would make a difference. But if SNGPT is going by &lt;10X BB, isn't it still proportionate?

Doing it by hand? /images/graemlins/ooo.gif /images/graemlins/ooo.gif I'm not that smart, that's why I pay the money for programs! LOL What formula would I use?

Link to some other interesting hands:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/postlist.php?Cat=0&amp;Board=singletable&amp;page=0&amp;PHPSES SID=

Sorry I don't know how to shorten it.

[tigerite]

SNGPT doesn't go by any number of blinds, it goes by equity pre flop, and equity if called and lose, called and win, and if all fold. That's it. Nothing to do with anything else..

[GtrHtr]

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I can see why the blind size would make a difference. But if SNGPT is going by &lt;10X BB, isn't it still proportionate?

Doing it by hand? /images/graemlins/ooo.gif /images/graemlins/ooo.gif I'm not that smart, that's why I pay the money for programs! LOL What formula would I use?

Link to some other interesting hands:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/postlist.php?Cat=0&amp;Board=singletable&amp;page=0&amp;PHPSES SID=

Sorry I don't know how to shorten it.

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Don't take this the wrong way, but without a basic understanding of the math behind EV calculations and ICM, you are getting much less out of SNGPT than you would be if you could do what SNGPT does for you with paper and a pencil. I'm mostly making this comment based on your comment about the blinds and a lack of understanding of how that effects your $EV based on your stack. Essentially, you will be figuring out why pushing in certain situations is more EV than others instead of just getting some data off eastbays progam.

Don't take this the wrong way either, but I recommend using the search function for the formula. You seem like someone who needs to do some work to improve your game.

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SNGPT doesn't go by any number of blinds, it goes by equity pre flop, and equity if called and lose, called and win, and if all fold. That's it. Nothing to do with anything else..

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I guess I meant the suggestion that one pushes certain hands with less than 10X the BB.

EDIT: While one still has enough FE left to make a difference.

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I can see why the blind size would make a difference. But if SNGPT is going by &lt;10X BB, isn't it still proportionate?

Doing it by hand? /images/graemlins/ooo.gif /images/graemlins/ooo.gif I'm not that smart, that's why I pay the money for programs! LOL What formula would I use?

Link to some other interesting hands:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/postlist.php?Cat=0&amp;Board=singletable&amp;page=0&amp;PHPSES SID=

Sorry I don't know how to shorten it.

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Don't take this the wrong way, but without a basic understanding of the math behind EV calculations and ICM, you are getting much less out of SNGPT than you would be if you could do what SNGPT does for you with paper and a pencil. I'm mostly making this comment based on your comment about the blinds and a lack of understanding of how that effects your $EV based on your stack. Essentially, you will be figuring out why pushing in certain situations is more EV than others instead of just getting some data off eastbays progam.

Don't take this the wrong way either, but I recommend using the search function for the formula. You seem like someone who needs to do some work to improve your game.

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I'm being a little bit facetious. I do generally understand the concepts behind the program. Stack sizes in relation to each other, how many players left to act, how likely one is to get a call, others I'm sure I'm leaving out. I do generally understand. And I am working on my game, but the statistical calculations are certainly a weak point for me.

Could you give me a search term to help me find the formula?

Thanks all!

O.K., I see it all under the detailed explanation of the ICM calculator.