On all sides.

[BigEndian]

Moving from the small stakes to the 10/20 and 15/30 tables, it doesn't take long to feel the thumb screws being applied by a good number of seats out there. You know the situations, you raise with overcards or a good PP and either you whiff or overcards come and an intelligent LAG is waiting to CR your ass or pop you on the turn with position.

When I run bad, I exacerbate the situation by imagining these plays are happening all the time and either call down too much or give way to much action against players that folding is way down on their list of options.

But these situations do happen.

No doubt, a player can make good money by letting these players take advantage of these spots and bringing the hammer down on them when you really do have the goods.

But is that all there is to it? I find that hard to believe and feel like having a better strategy will add more to my earn.

Does anyone feel like sharing how they approach these situations? Whether your approach is successful or not, I'd like to hear some options at least.

- Jim

[W. Deranged]

As some one planning to begin playing these limits in the near future I'd be very interested in this discussion as well.

Nice post, Jim.

[Dominic]

I've recently moved up to 15/30, and I hear your frustration. I think the situation you're describing is completely player dependent. If I'm in a hand with a player who is capable of making a move like you describe and I'm not ready to give the hand up yet, I'll immediately re-pop him to see how much he likes his hand. It's amazing how good of a read you can get on these players simply by taking the lead.

If the player doing the raising is an ABC type, a calling station, or just an all-around bad player - I will usually let the hand go if all I've got going for me is overs on a board that likely hit my opponent. No point in trying to out-maneuver someone who isn't paying attention to anything but his own cards, right?

Anyway, I'm enjoying 15/30 because the majority of players in my games just seem to be no better than your average 3-6 player but with a bigger bankroll. Plus, there are usually one or two decent players at your table who are paying attention and against whom you can make reasonable moves when the time is right.

Loose-passive players plus one or two decent players is a nice mix, in my experience.

[Joe Tall]

Jim,

I hate to say it but you answer is, "it depends".

Welcome to the next level,
JT

[Dazarath]

In my experience, I've seen more players pull those kind of plays at 20/40 than 15/30. Though, it does happen at 15/30. Assuming they do it with the correct frequency, I'm not sure there's too much you can do about it. I have seen players who will cold-call (or call out of the BB) looking for a no-paint flop, so they can try to push you off AK-AT. Heh, as if those are the only hands I raise in EP.

I guess my advice to you is, you don't need an overpair to continue playing after the flop. And watch for people who like to make plays. They tend to overdo it. If they're smart, they'd only do some portion of the time, and then you'd be force to lay down your hand as calling down would be unprofitable. But when some player always checkraises any 9-high flop vs a raiser, it starts to become obvious he's FOS.

[Surfbullet]

Hey BigEndian,

I made a very similar post here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4068783&page=0&vc=1#Post 4068783) in MHUSH. It's easy to get that feeling, especially when running bad.

The simplest question is: "Am I winning more when ahead, and losing less when behind?" If I can confidently say yes then I can weather the LAG assaults better knowing that I am punishing them with my "good" hands (middle pair+) and losing the least when behind.

Surf

[sfer]

What helped me a lot was a sentence when I was playing a silly 3/6 game in March. Evan and Clark were in a hand with a lot of action on a paired board, J-high. After, Clark told Evan, "When I give you that much action top pair is no good."

[lil feller]

I try to remember a couple of things, to stay away from situations like this.

First, just because you have AK or two big cards doesn't mean you have to raise PF every time. These goofballs are much less likely to take shots at you on ragged flops if you aren't the PFR, and when you do flop a pair and haven't raised PF, you can get many more big bets in the pot still confident your hand is good.

Second, if you did raise preflop and missed, you don't always have to bet, and you certainly don't have to bet twice. This is much easier when in position but if i'm against a player who I know will 2bet the turn without a pair, I don't bet. I make my turn/river decision based on how strong my hand is, and how often I think he'll bet twice with a worse hand.

Finally, you can turn the tables. Every once in a while when OOP i'll c/r the turn and lead any river or if i'm in position and get donked, i'll raise the turn. Sometimes they fold to the 2nd bet (certainly folding better hands some of the time), sometimes they call both bets with a worse hand, sometimes I spew 3 bets. It tells them, however, that you aren't just going to rollover and die, and the next time you c/r the turn you might have AK, and you might have top set. Gets a lot more free rivers/showdowns then you'd think.

thats all i've got to add, I look forward to hearing what other people have to say.

lf

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Moving from the small stakes to the 10/20 and 15/30 tables, it doesn't take long to feel the thumb screws being applied by a good number of seats out there. You know the situations, you raise with overcards or a good PP and either you whiff or overcards come and an intelligent LAG is waiting to CR your ass or pop you on the turn with position.

When I run bad, I exacerbate the situation by imagining these plays are happening all the time and either call down too much or give way to much action against players that folding is way down on their list of options.

But these situations do happen.

No doubt, a player can make good money by letting these players take advantage of these spots and bringing the hammer down on them when you really do have the goods.

But is that all there is to it? I find that hard to believe and feel like having a better strategy will add more to my earn.

Does anyone feel like sharing how they approach these situations? Whether your approach is successful or not, I'd like to hear some options at least.

- Jim

[/ QUOTE ]

The 10-20 game here is gravy. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

But if this type of stuff is happening try playing the UB 5-10. It seems that that is the type of game you're describing. This can get you used to the aggression a bit at 1/2 the limit along with exploring how to counter plays being made on you.

That's where I went to get used to it.

Just and idea.

b

[goofball]

[ QUOTE ]
Loose-passive players plus one or two decent players is basically the best [censored] mix ever in my experience.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[goofball]

This is a great topic for lots of hand posts in this forum. I feel like this is one of the main things you have to improve to get to the next level. Monkey calling down every tim eyou have A high or better isn't an option and folding every time you miss the flop and get tested isn't an option either. You have to play poker. Look at the flop, think about the opponent, think about the previous action, what does he think of you (or does he even care) does he check behind a fair amount afterwards, hwo confident will you be if you do indeed improve, etc. etc. etc. Think about the situation, the recent action, everything, and then decide. Post specific examples, title them "getting tested" or something.