Rakeback (am I missing something)

Hey everyone....can somebody explain to me what it is that I'm missing about Rakeback. Every other post I read people seem to talk like Rakeback changed their (poker) life. And I don't understand why. Let me explain what I am doing right now and if anybody could explain to me what I'm missing, that would be great.

Right now I am playing the 6 person $35-3 SNG tables at Bodog. I will use my November numbers as the reason why I just don't get it.......in the month of November I played 102 tournaments....and I made almost $2,300 this month (my best month yet) playing in my SNG's. Now I gave Bodog $3 for each tournament so that's $306 (102 tournee's X $3) each. From what I have read about Rakeback, it looks like getting 25% back is pretty common.....so in November if I did rakeback (which I don't think I can get through Bodog), I would have gotten another $76.50 ($306 X 25%) back. Now with $2,300 profit, I don't see how $76.50 is such a big deal. Now, I don't think I will always run this good as my ROI in November was over 60% and I understand it will go down and hence my profits will go down and hence my RakeBack % to profit ratio will normally be higher than this month, but I still don't get it. Every single person seems to think that Rakeback is just HUGE for them and I'm sure they're not crazy....so somebody....please tell me what I'm missing because I don't see why RakeBack is such a big deal.

Thanks ahead of time for your answers

[StacysMom]

First of all, 76 dollars isnt chump change. Second, RB is generally less significant for tuarnament players. For cash game players it can be a few thousand dollars/month, which may be up to half of their income.

Rakeback is good for anyone because it is essentially free money. You ran incredibly well and when you have a downswing you'll praise the rakeback that you receive. Also, 100 SnGs in an entire month is quite low, a serious player would complete around 1000 of those and receive around $750, which is a fair chunk of change.

[FishNChips]

[ QUOTE ]
Rakeback is good for anyone because it is essentially free money. You ran incredibly well and when you have a downswing you'll praise the rakeback that you receive. Also, 100 SnGs in an entire month is quite low, a serious player would complete around 1000 of those and receive around $750, which is a fair chunk of change.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is right on the money. Ring/Cash players earn more RB because more rake is taken while they play. Sites that offer RB based on the $taken/#players at table * RB% method are wonderful for TAG players who sit and watch 80% of the hands and don't win a lot of pots.

RB >1,000 isn't a stretch for a lot of the folks around here.

FishNChips

Many people here pay a lot more in rake than you do. In my break even months I make $600 in RB which puts a decent size dent in my nut. Rakeback keeps the sharks away from sites like Bodog but I just got RB there so the 35+3's will be a little tougher this month. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

-Bishop

I'll take your $75 if you don't care about it. Heck almost $1000 a year. Wouldn't you rather I had it(total fish) to lose than the poker sites having it?

Also, this is an open invitation to all players who don't want rake back. I will take it if you don't see the point to it.

[MyTurn2Raise]

hhhhhmmm...
many of us generate $5000 plus a month in rake...ring games are a different beast

[RikaKazak]

I'm getting $1,300 in rakeback at one site alone last month. And I play actively at probably 4 sites.

[Newt_Buggs]

hahaha, 64% ROI? Don't worry, your profit before rakeback will drop with time...a lot

Is it impossible to post something on this site without having your ROI attacked....or your sample size attacked?? My question had nothing at all to do with my ROI for November....nor was I asking if my profit will go down. I was simply using my November numbers as an example of why I didn't understand something.

To those who gave me a legitimate answer to my rakeback question...thank-you....I better understand what was confusing me before and I appreciate you taking the time to answer my question.....to those who are in some sort of crazy pissing contest where they always need to critique somebody's ROI #'s and tell them they are not a good player and that their numbers will go down, variance will bite them in the @ss, etc, etc, etc....I don't understand what your problem is.

[rwesty]

I made $23,000 this month. With rakeback I would have gotten $765 more. This is a piddly amount compared to my large amount of poker winnings. Who really cares about $765/mth?

[popniklas]

[ QUOTE ]
I made $23,000 this month. With rakeback I would have gotten $765 more. This is a piddly amount compared to my large amount of poker winnings. Who really cares about $765/mth?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, who could possibly be so cheap that they actually care about 700-800 dollars a month? I'm not sure, but I assume those who do are some suckers that don't feel an urge to brag about their poker winnings at online forums. Silly budget boys.

Why is OP complaining about getting free money?!?!?!

[Newt_Buggs]

In your original post you are saying that rakeback seems meaningless compared to your profits. My point was that your profits will drop significantly once your ROI reaches a sustainable level. Comparing rakeback to a sustainable ROI will make it seem more significant.

[morgant]

this is the most shortsighted idiotic post i may have seen. if you dont want your $800, i will have it to pay for my rent. Easy come easy go is the beginning ingredience to going broke. What happens next month if you lose 10k?? It will happen if it hasnt already. Every penny counts whether it be in poker or any sort of money management.

done ranting
morg.

You are comparing your average rakeback month to your best ROI month. Start by comparing your average rakeback month to your average ROI (say 20% maybe?). Then your rakeback will be 10% of your profits.

As for life changing, RB in cash games can be quite large and can change a break-even player to someone who makes $1000 a month, or a $1000/month guy into a $2000/month guy.

Also, for guys who do make money in poker and live off of it, RB takes away alot of the pressure of variance as they have some sort of guaranteed payment at the end of the month.

[GrinningBuddha]

Engage sarcasm detector, Morgant...

[chief444]

I can live off of the rakeback alone I make per month playing full time ring games. For tournaments it's probably a bit less significant. But it's still free money and only takes like an hour or two to set up. So why not?

The people you refer to probably thought you were an over-confident, uninformed amateur who had a brief run of luck and started gloating by tossing out unnecessary stats and snubbing his nose at free money. In short, they didn't glean the deeper meaning inherent in your question.

If you think a 59% ROI in your sngs is sustainable, i think ur on crack...its not life changing, but it sure is worth getting...i have a feeling you guys need a few more months playing before you understand why its such a beautiful thing...i know someone that used to 4-table the 55s and turned his nose up to rakeback cuz he was bringing in 10k a month...when we ran the numbers, he could have bought a new car...he didnt cash in on 1200 a month in rakeback and now he feels pretty silly...scoff at it if you want, but rakeback is +EV no matter how u look at it

[morgant]

doh........................ /images/graemlins/blush.gif

OPM....I think you are basically right. I don't think I would say I had a "deeper meaning"....My goal of asking the question was quite simple: trying to learn about something I didn't understand.

If I post my stats it's because I'm trying to explain WHY I don't understand something since my stats are the only thing I have to base my conclusions off of. This way the person who is answering me knows where I'm coming from.

However, I'm quickly learning not to post stats because people on this board get all crazy.....

My responses as quickly as possible are....

1) I never wrote that 59% is sustainable.....I don't think anybody else wrote that either.

2) I never scoffed at Rakeback. I was trying to understand why some people put such a heavy emphasis on it....

3) I don't need "a few more months of playing" to understand. I understand now thanks to the responses of some of the more helpful posters.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
2) I never scoffed at Rakeback. I was trying to understand why some people put such a heavy emphasis on it....

[/ QUOTE ]

1. You are in the rakeback/affiliate forum... what did you expect?

2. Its free money, that you have to set yourself up for when you first setup an account.

3. High volume players make more in rakeback than 99%+ of players make off of their play!!!