Trips in Omaha Hi/Lo

[Inwar]

I’d like to request some help on play of trips in Omaha Hi-Lo. I play this game at low limits at a few on-line sites. These games are typically loose & passive, with about 50% of players seeing the flop, rare pre-flop raises, and final pots of 8-11 BB.

I understand that trips are viewed as a drawing hand in Hi/Lo, but am uncertain how (or if) to play them if they don't improve. I’ll give two specific situations and ask for input.

Scenario I
Me: A4QQ on the button. For those who wouldn’t call with this holding, make the ace suited.
Board: 47QT5, rainbow

Assume there has been a bet with no raise each round of betting. Would you call a single bet against:
A) 2 opponents
B) 3 opponents

Scenario II
Me: A4QQ on the button.
Board: 47QT5. Flop had 7Q suited, and the 5 brings both the low & the third of the suit.

Same as above -- assuming a bet with no raise each round of betting, do you call a single bet against:
A) 2 opponents
B) 3 opponents

I’ve read Zee’s book and purchased Turbo’s Omaha sim. They’ve both helped me a lot with low play, but I struggle with highs. Any general rules for when to call the river with made high hands (top 2 pair, top trips) that didn't improve would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[Buzz]

"Scenario I Me: A4QQ on the button....Board: 47QT5, rainbow
Assume there has been a bet with no raise each round of betting. Would you call a single bet against:
A) 2 opponents
B) 3 opponents"

Inwar - You haven't quite given enough information. I'll presume four or five opponents saw the flop of 47Q-rainbow, that everybody checked to you after the flop, that you bet, and that two or three opponents called your bet on the second betting round.

If only 50% of the players see the flop, then there is some starting hand selection being exercised, at least by some of your opponents. I'm wondering exactly how many players saw this particular flop - and how often the players who actually saw this flop usually see the flop. For the purpose of making a decision as to how to play the hand, who in particular has seen the flop matters.

An opponent would need to be playing 36XX or 68XX to end up with a straight here. Before the flop (first betting round) no selective opponent is probably playing 36XX or 68XX as a primary draw. But a selective opponent could have some combination of cards that happened to include 36 or 68, such as A236, A268, A346, or A368 - and a non-selective opponent could have almost anything.

I'm also wondering who made the bet after the flop (on the second betting round). Flopping top set with low not yet possible, I'd want to try to limit the field (by raising on the second betting round) against a discriminating group of opponents. Let's assume four or five players called the blinds to see the flop, that they all checked on the second betting round, that you then bet, and that two or three of them called your bet. In that case you might tentatively put at least some of the callers on low draws after the flop, probably including an A2 or A3.

But note that the hand simply doesn't play the same way against different groups of opponents. Sometimes you'd want to get in a raise after a flop of 47Q-rainbow, but sometimes you wouldn't.

To answer your question, assuming four or five of your opponents saw the flop and two or three continued after the flop, I would almost surely not fold top set to a single bet. The real question for me would be whether to just call or to raise. I'd probably usually throw in a raise here against two or three opponents.

"Scenario II .....Board: 47QT5. Flop had 7Q suited, and the 5 brings both the low & the third of the suit."

The suitedness makes this one tougher. Say the flop is 4h7cQh and you hold Ad4dQsQc. Someone continuing after this flop could have either a low draw or a heart draw (or something else). You're not going to knock out anyone with the nut flush draw, but, depending on the individual opponents involved, you might be successful in driving out non-nut flush draws by aggressively betting your flopped set of queens. And I like to collect from the low draws when I have flopped top set of aces, kings, or queens.

Then on the river, you can almost be certain the 5h has made someone's low - but it's difficult to know if 5h has also made someone a flush. It's probably too late to make a move to get an opponent with a less than nut flush to fold. (That would have to have been done earlier). I'd tend to call with the set of queens, especially if there were only a couple of opponents in the hand after the flop.

Note that there are some flops (eg. ThJcQh) I'd generally play slowly (rightly or wrongly) with a flopped top set of queens - and I might fold on the river if I didn't improve to a boat. But I think neither of the flops/boards about which you have asked fit into that category.

Just my opinion.

Buzz

[Roy Hobbs]

I'm teaching myself Omaha too, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

I agree with Buzz that the first case will often call for a raise. Many players drawing to the low will fire either a) with simply the nut low (but you know this) and b) with a busted low that turned into two pair.

I think that if there is a bet and a call, you should raise. If there is a check and a bet, I'm more likely to call to try to get an extra bet from the third player.

RH

[Phat Mack]

There were a number of interesting posts discussing sets on this forum last September. Here are some url's.

Top sets (http://www.twoplustwo.com/forums/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=otherp&Number=144467&p age=&view=&sb=&o=)

sets over sets (http://www.twoplustwo.com/forums/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=otherp&Number=152309&F orum=otherp&Words=sets&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searc hpage=1&Limit=25&Old=1year&Main=152309&Search=true #Post152309)

Set simulations (http://www.twoplustwo.com/forums/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=otherp&Number=148520&F orum=otherp&Words=sets&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searc hpage=1&Limit=25&Old=1year&Main=148520&Search=true #Post148520)

[Aragorn]

You have the nuts on the flop and turn. And no low is made. The river card can make a lot of lows, straights and flushes to halve you and beat you, but I would tend to play fast as long as I have the best hand for 100% of the pot.

With a decent size pot on the river, I figure I am looking at a crying call when the flush cards hits. Without the flush card, I am calling, not raising the river, but pretty hopefully.

A raising war on the river gets tough. Are you facing two nut lows who don't know not to keep raising? It is hard to know how long to stay in.

[Inwar]