What am I doing wrong?

[lefty rosen]

Okay, first off I'm a winning player at low limit poker, I would guess I am about 9,000 US in the black since last July playing mostly 1/2 and 2/4 online most full and some shorttable 2/4. One of the big holes in my game are the Friday night and Saturday night low limit games like what they have at Party Poker, Pacific Poker and to an extent at Pokerroom. I'm a guy who plays like the book(eventhough I have never read a strategy book in my life just figured it out for myself....) The problem is that my good cards are constantly getting smashed at these no foldem tables, by suited crap or off suit crap. I figured out that my hourly winning percentage on these tables where 7 or 8 call a raise are about half that of the usual 4 or 5 caller games. How should I play AA,KK,QQ,JJ should I not smash them in early position and try and use a moron as a horse post flop? These games are so bad that I won't play them anymore as the frustration factor isn't worth the marginal winning rate, any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Net Warrior]

Maybe you need to work on game selection. No fold'em games can be brutal and I avoid them. I perfer games with 7-8bb average pots. After that, the higher the % that see the flop the better.

[Jeffage]

In these very loose games you should win more but with more volatility (my last week at 15-30 on Party is evidence of this). You may not be properly adjusting to the looser games...I advise you to drop $30 on Hold Em for Adv. Players and read the loose games section as well as the rest of the book. It is a very worthy investment and will show you many situations where it is appropriate to deviate from "by the book" strategy. Good Luck.

Jeff

[Mike Haven]

in fact, you have answered your own question - as you don't know the proper strategy for these games you are correct - don't play them any more, just continue to look for the types of games where you can win

however if for some strange reason you feel you must play in these games you should try reading a strategy book - HFAP from this site would be good for you - you might be surprised how much more money you can make even from "your" kind of games - (to say that you play by the book when you haven't read a book is a bit like playing correct strategy - it can be counter-intuitive, so you may not be playing correctly in certain circumstances)

finally, once you are playing 100% correct strategy in the wild games, although you will win in the long run, the fluctuations will be far greater than in your usual games and you cannot expect to wiin at a steady rate - if this is something you "need" to do because of your psychological make-up, then you will probably never be happy playing in the wild games - i joined one yesterday and received a great drawing hand on my very first big blind - i lost a lot of dough immediately - then i didn't get a playable-past-the-flop hand for the next two hours and if i was a frustratable kind of guy i could very easily have tilted - but i dug in until the inevitable good hand came along - i won back all my losses in one hand plus ten big blinds - thems the fluctuations you have to live with, and, of course, i was lucky the second hand held up or i would really have been stuck

[Aragorn]

The other two responses give good advice. I would only add that there are a couple of different types of loose games. In some, lots of people see the flop for one bet. In others, most pots are capped.

You strategy would change quite a bit, depending on the type of game. In the first, you would be able to play quite a few hands like suited connectors hoping to hit a flop. In the latter, you would need to tighten up a lot.

And watch out for the flavor of the game changing. Wild games tend to tighten up after a while.

[Packerfan1]

Here's my two cents on your comments...

"I would guess I am about 9,000 US in the black since last July playing mostly 1/2 and 2/4 online"

Why do you think you're doing anything wrong? You're up 3000 BB over the last year in games with big variance swings. If you're doing something wrong it's not keeping detailed records enough to KNOW exactly what you are up vs. having to "take a guess".

The problem is that my good cards are constantly getting smashed at these no foldem tables, by suited crap or off suit crap."

Constantly. All the Time. They never hold up. And... Im up $9000... hmmm. Get real, welcome to poker. Here's a clue: Your AA are going to get beat. A lot. (but less then it seems like they do). Get Poker Tracker and you'll get comfort from the hard data like I do. My KK never seems to win... but in reality it wins 57% of the time and has made over $800 in the last 3 months. Reality check.

"These games are so bad that I won't play them anymore as the frustration factor isn't worth the marginal winning rate, any suggestions would be appreciated"

Look in the mirror and try to say that first part without laughing at yourself. "These players are SOOO bad that I dont want to play with them anymore!" I want to find good players that will only play cards I think are reasonable, will fold when its obvious Im beating them and oh, will minimize my winnings while expertly extracting every dime from me when I get my AQ dominated by AK. Tell you what, you go take on the pros who play good cards... I'll take the crack-smoking goofballs at Party who raise from the BB with KJo, ok?

Wow, that kinda turned into a rant, heh?! /forums/images/icons/blush.gif

Anyways...

1. Start keeping win/loss records
2. Get Poker Tracker
3. Consider moving up to 3/6 & 5/10. You've got the $9K bankroll for it and the play is a little more (but just a little) sane. PS- AA, KK, etc... you'll lose with those up here too sometimes.
4. Change your perspective, your game is probably fine.

For what its worth.

Pack

[lefty rosen]

I know within a grand how much I am up I just have to research it, now for the other comments the variance isn't that high for me on the semi loose games, it's the wild any two games that I can't win as much per hour. Also I would never in my life win apx 9,000 and just add it to my roll, who needs dumping large at the paradise 20/40 game and saying well I was up 9,000, been there done that......

[Bubmack]

Here are a few tips:

1. position is even more important. Its nice to raise the flop bettor for 2 and you can usually move the overcards out.

2. In the BB and SB with hands like TT, JJ - consider not raising the whole field. If you build the pot all overcards will be hanging around waiting to suck out.
- wait for the flop and checkraise if you are an overpair - muck to a board with an overcard and an early bettor - checkraise to a board with an overcard and a late bettor.

3. When out of position - dont open bet top pair - check raise it religiously. Betting out of position is just like pissing in the wind. Checkraise until there scared to death to bet. Once again - your trying to move out the field by making it two bets and crushing their implied odds.

3. Most importantly - Believe the Turn check raise. MUCKMUCKMUCK - most "any-two callers" wont raise unless they have at least 2 pair - if your still on a pair - muck it to the turn checkraise.

Bubs

[kdog]