A Few Hands From Stars Tournies...Help?

[WhatsEmo]

Here are some recent beats I have taken while playing tournaments at Stars. My strategy has been to play tight pre-flop early on and hope to double up with a big hand. Some of these are from one and two table tournaments and some from multi-table ones. I always seem to make it to the final 30 or 40% (sometimes farther) of the large ones, but can't seem to cash. I don't mean for this to be whining about bad beats and I know I've probably just had some bad luck losing to 2 and 3 outers. Any comments appreciated.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

PokerStars Game #78476883: Tournament #172149, Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2003/07/06 - 21:24:40 (EST)
Table '172149 15' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: mtnman (2710 in chips)
Seat 2: spagod (6940 in chips)
Seat 3: daisyjubilee (3400 in chips)
Seat 4: calbatross (4780 in chips)
Seat 5: SaveMySkin (1424 in chips)
Seat 7: skindog13 (2050 in chips)
Seat 8: CAPECOD PIMP (4140 in chips)
Seat 9: Wayward (7195 in chips)
mtnman: posts small blind 100
spagod: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SaveMySkin [Kc Kh]
daisyjubilee: folds
calbatross: folds
SaveMySkin: raises 400 to 600
skindog13: folds
CAPECOD PIMP: folds
Wayward: folds
mtnman: folds
spagod: calls 400
*** FLOP *** [9h 7h 6s]
spagod: checks
SaveMySkin: bets 412
spagod: calls 412
*** TURN *** [9h 7h 6s] [4h]
spagod: checks
SaveMySkin: bets 412 and is all-in
spagod: calls 412
*** RIVER *** [9h 7h 6s 4h] [8s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
spagod: shows [Th Js] (a straight, Seven to Jack)
SaveMySkin: shows [Kc Kh] (a pair of Kings)
spagod collected 2948 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2948 | Rake 0
Board [9h 7h 6s 4h 8s]
Seat 1: mtnman (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: spagod (big blind) showed [Th Js] and won (2948) with a straight, Seven to Jack
Seat 3: daisyjubilee folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: calbatross folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: SaveMySkin showed [Kc Kh] and lost with a pair of Kings
Seat 7: skindog13 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: CAPECOD PIMP folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Wayward (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

PokerStars Game #77777607: Tournament #164568, Hold'em No Limit - Level
II (15/30) - 2003/07/04 - 22:22:01 (EST)
Table '164568 15' Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: Rossettie (2650 in chips)
Seat 2: Dr No (1410 in chips)
Seat 3: Alien (4705 in chips)
Seat 4: mickey (1165 in chips)
Seat 5: tikay (2420 in chips)
Seat 6: SaveMySkin (1575 in chips)
Seat 7: Olivia3435 (2010 in chips)
Seat 8: Tarax (1380 in chips)
Seat 9: Big Ben 33 (1645 in chips)
Big Ben 33: posts small blind 15
Rossettie: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SaveMySkin [Js Ts]
Dr No: folds
Alien: folds
mickey: folds
tikay: calls 30
SaveMySkin: calls 30
Olivia3435: folds
Tarax: folds
Big Ben 33: calls 15
Rossettie: checks
*** FLOP *** [8c 6s 9d]
Big Ben 33: bets 30
Rossettie: folds
tikay: raises 30 to 60
SaveMySkin: calls 60
Big Ben 33: raises 270 to 330
tikay: calls 270
SaveMySkin: calls 270
*** TURN *** [8c 6s 9d] [7c]
Big Ben 33: bets 1285 and is all-in
tikay: raises 775 to 2060 and is all-in
SaveMySkin: calls 1215 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [8c 6s 9d 7c] [6c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Big Ben 33: shows [9h 8s] (two pair, Nines and Eights)
tikay: shows [9c Tc] (a straight flush, Six to Ten)
tikay collected 140 from side pot
SaveMySkin: shows [Js Ts] (a straight, Seven to Jack)
tikay collected 4755 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4895 Main pot 4755. Side pot 140. | Rake 0
Board [8c 6s 9d 7c 6c]
Seat 1: Rossettie (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 2: Dr No folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Alien folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: mickey folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: tikay showed [9c Tc] and won (4895) with a straight flush, Six
to Ten
Seat 6: SaveMySkin showed [Js Ts] and lost with a straight, Seven to
Jack
Seat 7: Olivia3435 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Tarax (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Big Ben 33 (small blind) showed [9h 8s] and lost with two pair,
Nines and Eights

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Can't find the hand history for this one. $50+$5 multi-table. Blinds 100-200. I have about T2000 and am on the button with AKs. MP raise to 700. Raiser has about T3000 left. Folded around to me. I go all-in. Blinds fold. Raiser calls me with A3s. 3 on the turn and I'm out.

[Augie]

Hand 1 - Why not bet allin on the flop? With a coordinated board and two hearts I wouldn't be trying to milk my overpair.

He still may call, of course, and you still may lose, but sometimes it isn't a bad idea to give your opponent a chance to fold.
---------------------------

Tasting the honey in tourneys, especially in multitabled ones, can be as long a process as watching the bees go about their business all summer long.

I believe that those who play well have positive EV in the long run. However, it may be more profitable, and better for a sane mind, for many of us to stick to ring games as our steady diet. Playing the occasional tourney for variation and as a safe way to increase variance, ie get lucky. (I'm speaking mainly of multitable tourneys)

That being said, I'll admit I play my fair share of tourneys. PokerStars can be addicting.

[Jon Matthews]

hand 1

bigger bets on the flop should make chasers fold, especially gutshots

hand 2

very unlucky that someone with a straight you had beaten went all in on the turn when you had the current nuts - i would have played this the same although maybe a bit hesitant to draw on the flop for big ben's bet - he should have bet more with his two pair to protect it and mayve saved you some grief but anyway...

hand 3

bad beat against a muppet


Jon

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Hand #2: On the flop, you're calling off about 18% of your chips on a draw *without* proper odds. Easy fold there.

[FeliciaLee]

I can't comment much on your multi-table strategy, since I have had no success in that arena, but here goes, anyway.

In your first example, I am assuming you were playing a multi by the chip count. If so, I think you should have raised a lot more (I'd have gone all-in). Spagod had you outchipped, so he had no reason not to call your small raise. Had you put all your chips in the middle from the beginning, he might have hesitated calling almost 1500 with JT, not being the chip lead himself, but so close to it, and falling well behind Wayward if he doubled you up.

In the second example, I'm not quite sure why you and Tikay are playing drawing hands so hard. At least Tikay had top pair with two draws on the flop. You really only had one thing going for you, with a backdoor flush draw, and not the nut flush, at that.

I don't really play drawing hands in tourneys. They most often bite you in the backside.

In your third example, if you knew he would raise 700 with something like A3, then your all-in raise was the best thing to do. I, personally, don't like to go all-in with AK, especially in a full-ring, unless I am desperate and need to double through or get out. I will only start going all-in with AK when it gets down to 5 or less. I am very conservative, so maybe that is why I haven't had much success at the multi's, while doing so well at the single table SNG's.

In all three of these hands, you played a completely different way than I would ever play. I'm not saying that is a bad thing, just different. One thing I always try to think about before I make any decision, is, "what do I want/expect to happen when I do this-or-that?" And, "Will I get the results I want, if I do this-or-that?"

If doing something will not get me the results I want, I don't do it. I think I got that from TJ Cloutier's book, btw.

In your first example, raising only a tiny bit would be teasing someone to call. Did you really want a caller that short-stacked with only a tiny raise? I would have gone all-in and either picked up the blinds and been happy, or doubled through and been more happy (or in your case, been out of the tourney and signed up for a new one). Your bet didn't achieve the results you were looking for, it only enticed Spagod to call, then outdraw you.

I hope this helped in some small way!

[WhatsEmo]

KK is such a big hand that I figured I had a better shot to double up if I made a small raise and then got the rest of my chips in after the flop. The blinds aren't big enough that just stealing them gives my stack a real increase. Obviously it would have worked out better in this instance to go all-in preflop and just take the blinds, but I was trying to double up.

[WhatsEmo]

If he's going to chase 400 on the flop with a gutshot and another 400 on the turn without improving, I think he would probably call 800 on the flop. In fact, I WANTED him to call on both the flop and the turn, just not to hit his hand.

[WhatsEmo]

Looking at it again, you're right. One of the things I'm learning from this exercise is that I'm calling too frequently and for too many chips with draws. Even draws to the nuts. That's my ring-game persona coming out.

Thanks for the advice.

[WhatsEmo]

In the first hand, I was trying to double up. That was my goal. The hand went perfectly, except that he hit the 3-outer on the end. I was really pretty low in chips and stealing the blinds, while helpful, isn't a huge step towards a larger stack.

Regarding the second hand...okay, no more drawing in tournaments. I promise.

Third hand...what would you have done with my hand? Flat-called? If the flop doesn't help you and there's a bet, fold? What if the flop doesn't help you and it's checked to you? AK is a hand I have trouble playing when the flop misses me. I like to go all-in with it. I find that on Stars people will call with AQ or AJ or even Axs and against these hands AK is a huge favorite. Even if you're up against a pair, you're only a slight dog. And of course, often the initial rasier will fold and you don't hane to worry about whether or not the flop helps you.

I really appreciate your advice. Thanks.

[banditbdl]

By making a bet you want him to call on the flop you're basically risking your seat in the tournament for 800 chips (which would increase your stack from ~2100 to ~2900), is this really a move you want to be making a lot in the long run?

[WhatsEmo]

In the long run, I figure I am more likely to double up with a big hand like KK by playing it like I did rather than pushing in pre-flop. My goal was to double up. Sometimes I will get called and get run down like I did. But heads up, I am a huge favorite against almost any hand. I think there is a big difference at this point in the tournament between T1700 and T2900 (the difference between stealing the blinds and doubling up). Do you disagree? I appreciate your comments.

[banditbdl]

I think you're right to go for a little more than just the blinds with KK, but I wouldn't be disappointed taking the antes plus the extra 400 he called pre-flop after a flop with straight and flush possibilities. All that being said I have a sneaking suspicion this guy would have called no matter what you bet on the flop.