real common situation.

[Victor]

i am the button with qjo. folded to me and i raise. sb is 30/15/1.5 and although we have been at the table and i have raised a ton we havent tangled. so im not paranoid.

well i raise and he 3bets and i call.

flop is q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif i have no heart.

he bets.

gimme a line.

[MAxx]

I think that the choice is between raising the flop or non A turns. I'd prefer to raise the flop... and see what develops. I may mix it up a little, but air on the flop raise 75/25.

[baronzeus]

i call and raise any turn. call and fold the river if he 3bets the turn.

[Wynton]

[ QUOTE ]
i call and raise any turn. call and fold the river if he 3bets the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is definitely my default line.

But suddenly I wonder whether it makes more sense to raise the flop if villain is overly aggressive. I'm thinking that if you raise the flop, villain takes that less seriously, and might actually reraise or even donk the turn. In that case, you can just call the turn and plan to raise a non-A river.

Without a predictably aggressive opponent, though, I think I'd rather plan to raise the turn.

[Dave Mac]

raise the flop, if he 3 bets i either cap, and call down. or i just call the 3 bet and a turn raise, or call and just get 1 bet in on each street, depending on how i feel at the table.
dave

Against thinking opponents, dont you have to sometimes raise with good hands here in order to make your freecard raises (and caps) work?

[ArturiusX]

I like raising the flop half the time, waiting half the time. Mixing it up is good.

[Lmn55d]

I like raising the flop and calling down after 3bet best for a couple reasons:

1) Guys will 3bet with TT, hearts, etc. etc.
2) Guys will call you down more liberally because the flop is draw heavy if you raise the flop
3) I don't like the thought of not seeing a showdown against a semi-unknown TAG who 3bets the turn.

[sublime]

im a simpleton. the majoroity of the time i am playing this as fast as possible and raising the flop. if he 3-bets (unless hes a kook) i just call and make sure the big bets go in on turn and river.

[Victor]

[ QUOTE ]
i am the button with qjo. folded to me and i raise. sb is 30/15/1.5 and although we have been at the table and i have raised a ton we havent tangled. so im not paranoid.

well i raise and he 3bets and i call.

flop is q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif i have no heart.

he bets.

gimme a line.

[/ QUOTE ]

uhh. thanks for clearing it up guys.

i called the flop and the turn was the k /images/graemlins/heart.gif

now what?

[Lmn55d]

I think the best play is probably to call the turn and call any nonheart/nonace river.

i auto raise here. AUTO. My game is agressive enough that it tends to leave other plays for later /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ QUOTE ]
i call and raise any turn. call and fold the river if he 3bets the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

The 5/10 players in particular are so timid. At the prima games at that level I'd consider that a raise my opponent could only call with a better hand. Of course, as soon as you jump up to 10/20 on the same site everyone snaps and suddenly folding 77 here becomes heresy.

I'm still not entirely sure why waiting to raise the turn is considered ideal here, but many players far (about a million times) better than me are advocating it. Can I get a real quick explanation on what is it, exactly, that we gain here that makes the difference? An extra SB (or perhaps 2) from A<Q / K<Q?

[The Truth]

I like raising the turn instead of the flop because:

1. You get a bit more money in the pot when you are ahead. Most aggro players will cont. bet the turn with little.

2. You get to decide if a river bet goes in

3. You give him a chance to fold overs.

blake

Raise the flop like you would with a draw. Slowplaying here can hurt. If he 3-bets, take a WA/WB line with your position.

Once the Kh hits the turn it's time to start planning rivers. Fold to any heart or ace, but maintain the WA/WB line on all other cards.

[kiddo]

[ QUOTE ]
i auto raise here. AUTO. My game is agressive enough that it tends to leave other plays for later

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you autoraising this flop?

He is often betting with 3 outs and u want to AUTOtell him he should fold? (If u just call he will normally bet turn, I guess we can agree on that)

Would u also autoraise flop in same situation if u had A6o and he 3bet and flop was Axx?

[kiddo]

Raise.

He will often bet flop with nothing and keep on betting when he hit a good draw on turn (or if he got middle pocketpair and now pick up a draw).

If he hit his K he will often not 3bet turn (at least not a 30/15/1.5 guy) so u can check behind on river for same price.

[cartman]

I think raising the flop is best. Any time I have a one pair hand that I definitely want to showdown I like to have the lead on the turn (unless he 3-bets the flop of course). This limits the damage to 3 turn/river bets maximum when we are in fact behind while still getting plenty of value when you we are in front, which is a healthy majority of the time against almost any hand range. I think he is far more likely to call down or even spew with a worse hand than he would be if you waited until the turn and he may also 3-bet the flop and lead the turn with a draw. Is my thinking wrong here?

Thanks,
Cartman

[oreogod]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i am the button with qjo. folded to me and i raise. sb is 30/15/1.5 and although we have been at the table and i have raised a ton we havent tangled. so im not paranoid.

well i raise and he 3bets and i call.

flop is q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif i have no heart.

he bets.

gimme a line.

[/ QUOTE ]

uhh. thanks for clearing it up guys.

i called the flop and the turn was the k /images/graemlins/heart.gif

now what?

[/ QUOTE ]


this is a pretty easy raise, imo. Well, [censored], everyone hates the word 'easy'...but seriously, thats the way it looks to me. Unless he is really capable of re-raising with a worse hand here...say worse Q w/ heart, UI hand w/ Ah, JhJ...etc.

[sthief09]

i mix it up. against this type i raise the flop since he might fold A high to a turn raise.

[college_boy]

[ QUOTE ]


3. You give him a chance to fold overs.


[/ QUOTE ]

If he will call the turn with overs when you raise the flop and fold them if you raise the turn wouldn't raising the flop be better? Don't you want him to call with overs there?

[luckyharr]

My standard line would be to raise the flop and continue betting the turn and river. If he 3 bets the flop I would cap then call down if he continues betting the turn and river.

I'm a pretty aggressive blind stealer and good players play back at me from the blinds with marginal holdings. I like raising the flop in this situation because the SB is more likely to call down with his middle pair or decent Ace to a flop raise. Waiting for the turn to raise allows him to get away from his holdings that I am way ahead of.

[Trix]

I mix it, but probably raise the flop more often than the turn as I semibluf more on the flop than the turn.

[luckyharr]

[ QUOTE ]

uhh. thanks for clearing it up guys.

i called the flop and the turn was the k /images/graemlins/heart.gif

now what?

[/ QUOTE ]

Assuming he bets out, I think you should stick with your plan and raise (was that your plan?) He's likely to ditch hands that you wouldn't mind a call from, but he could still call down lightly thinking that you are semi-bluffing the Ace of Hearts. If he 3-bets, you are getting 10-1 on the initial call but the Jh and Qh don't seem very clean. It would seem like about 1-2 effective outs and I think you can fold. If he's the type that can semibluff three-bet this turn, then I would only call the initial bet.