Hand vrs CrimeZ

[krishanleong]

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (9 SB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

River: (9 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Hero folds, BB calls.

Final Pot: 14 BB

Crime is 29/19/2.5/33 over 2504.

Krishan

[Subby]

Nice discipline there...I always want to show down good hands but it's good to see examples of TPTK getting folded for one bet on the river.

JJ and AJ seem most likely. KcQc seem less likely as I think he would have raised earlier with it. TT and 99 - maybe he was trying to keep folks in, but doubtful with the flush draw there.

The fold itself is good. The only thing I don't like about this is that if I'm going to be at the table for a while afterwards I always feel really insecure bet / folding into aggressive / smart players.

You better know your opponent incredibly well if you're making these folds. This is entirely read-dependent. Against an unknown, or even a semi-known, datamined TAG, you're calling the raise and being shown a winner the majority of the time. Thats just life.

[Lmn55d]

Definitely a good fold.

No reasonable player is making this protected pot river raise with a worse hand. I guess you're thinking that he knows you're good and knows you could lay down a hand like AK. The thing is there aren't very many 10/20 TAGS who actually fold this in this spot. Most 10/20 TAGS suck and are bad hand readers.

Additionally, he has to expect to either be ahead of BB or make him fold a better hand. BB never in a million years folds an ace or better. The only worse aces you are ahead of are A2, A3, A5-8. A lot of TAGs don't raise these UTG. So he'd have to be making a move with like JQ, KJ, KT, or something like that.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
Against an unknown, or even a semi-known, datamined TAG, you're calling the raise and being shown a winner the majority of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty much incorrect in my opinion. Did you miss the fact that the pot is protected?

Krishan

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
The fold itself is good. The only thing I don't like about this is that if I'm going to be at the table for a while afterwards I always feel really insecure bet / folding into aggressive / smart players.

[/ QUOTE ]


sigh. i hate this metagame crap. maybe its because i dont get it, but maybe its because it doesnt exist online at 10/20. is he going to know you had AK? no. everyone will assuming you fired 3 times with KK or on a bluff. if you cap the flop and turn and give up on the river, then maybe itll look bad. but this in isolation doesnt look bad

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Against an unknown, or even a semi-known, datamined TAG, you're calling the raise and being shown a winner the majority of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty much incorrect in my opinion. Did you miss the fact that the pot is protected?


[/ QUOTE ]

read it again

[MAxx]

looks good to me. i folded a winning ace to an ace with a worse kicker in a situation like this the other day, but i don't really know how to play it differently other than to take note of the player that made the play.

[Nietzsche]

Definitely a good fold with BB in the hand. This is never a bluff, and almost never a worse hand.

If you were HU and BB had folded on the river do you call?

[mab_nyc69]

great fold.....i really respect the discipline. please define "the hand is protected" for me. Im still new to this site.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Against an unknown, or even a semi-known, datamined TAG, you're calling the raise and being shown a winner the majority of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty much incorrect in my opinion. Did you miss the fact that the pot is protected?


[/ QUOTE ]

read it again

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm an idiot.

Krishan

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
great fold.....i really respect the discipline. please define "the hand is protected" for me. Im still new to this site.

[/ QUOTE ]

Protected pot mean a pot with a third player in. It's much less likely for Villians raise to be a bluff because he has 2 opponents, not 1.

Krishan

[ QUOTE ]
the pot is protected

[/ QUOTE ]

At what point do you decide to call the raise despite the fact that it is a protected pot? Its not inconceivable to me that AK could get played this way, and certainly there are some players at 10/20 who will checkraise the river on a worse ace or less. Would you make this fold against an unknown? Would you make it against a certifiable assclown?

[mab_nyc69]

thx...that's what i thought. What was the result?

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
thx...that's what i thought. What was the result?

[/ QUOTE ]

Crime had AJ.

Krishan

[TStoneMBD]

its a good fold. the only hand he could have here that hes making a move with is Ax but that is very unlikely. for one, he probably would have raised earlier in the hand. he also cant expect a river raise with Ax to serve a purpose because he cant expect you to fold a better hand even though you might. BB in the hand has called all 3 streets so its likely he has an ace himself which means that UTG would have to have the only ace left in the deck a large portion of the time and his kicker would have to be unpaired.

summary: his hand range for making a move is very small and unlikely so good fold.