Two Hands-Comments please [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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Buccaneer

11-29-2005, 05:53 PM

Your comments needed. I am officially on tilt now so please serious comments only please. Scarcasm is ok but use it skillfully.

I have a special file for hands like the second one. Do You See Why?

Party Poker 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) link (http://www.darksun.lunarpages.com/poker/)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero calls, 1 folds, CO checks, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5.00 SB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

River: (5.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7.50 BB.

Party Poker 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) link (http://www.darksun.lunarpages.com/poker/)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, MP calls, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8.00 SB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP calls, SB folds.

Turn: (5.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, MP 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG calls, MP calls.

River: (17.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, MP calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 20.50 BB.

silly_monkey

11-29-2005, 06:02 PM

First hand:
Why do you check and call the turn and river? You have a full house and CO has shown no aggression! Bet the turn. 3-bet if he raises. B/C the river. You have the best hand here 9 of 10 times. Way,way,way to passive on this hand I think.

Second hand:

Wow does that suck. I think you can easily fold the river. Someone has an ace for sure. That being said... I probably call any just so I can show my cards and proceed to go on a tilt/rage fueled rant a la Hulmuth. But seriously... you should fold.

11-29-2005, 06:03 PM

Why no turn bet or raise on the first hand? He could have made a flush. Same with the river. KK, K9, K5, K3, 99 are the only hands you're behind.

Second hand looks fine.

@bsolute_luck

11-29-2005, 06:05 PM

well if he has 99 or K9 or something in hand #1 that sux, but bet the turn anyways. heck, i'd even 3-bet that turn. you will win more often than not.

hand #2: i'm not overcalling that river.

11-29-2005, 06:09 PM

grunch

First Hand: You have to raise on the turn, if you get reraised, you can slow down and pray you don't see 99 or K9.

Second Hand: preflop raise might be a little loose, depends on the table, but the flop is excellent luck. On the river I think you could comfortably fold and cry about such a nice big pot. One or both have an Ace.

MrWookie47

11-29-2005, 06:10 PM

If it was just one bettor on that river, I call every time - it could be QJ. With two, one almost certainly has an A. I fold rather than overcall.

Hand 1 is terrible. Just lean on the bet/raise button and don't let up until he makes you scream Uncle.

Coolidge

11-29-2005, 06:10 PM

I lose or win alot more on hand 1.

Hands 2 looks good, but I think the 2nd A kills you. That sucks. NH.

tyler_cracker

11-29-2005, 06:15 PM

Is raising KQo, out of the BB, against 3 opponents standard for everyone?

I agree with everyone else about everything else. Seriously, what's up with that turn check in hand 1??

DCWildcat

11-29-2005, 06:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If it was just one bettor on that river, I call every time - it could be QJ. With two, one almost certainly has an A. I fold rather than overcall.

Hand 1 is terrible. Just lean on the bet/raise button and don't let up until he makes you scream Uncle.

[/ QUOTE ]

Getting almost 20:1? I think you might be overvaluing the overcall. If it's a no-brainer call HU, then it can't be an easy overcall getting such good odds. I call.

Hand 1--is that a joke? I'm thinking that hand should be in the bad beats forum. And if you aren't bet/raising till you bleed, as recommended above, you're insane.

sean c

11-29-2005, 06:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is raising KQo, out of the BB, against 3 opponents standard for everyone?

[/ QUOTE ]

No

11-29-2005, 06:24 PM

Hand 1 - Way too passive. Check/calling anywhere after the flop with a full house is ridiculous. *MAYBE* checkraise the turn. If he has a bigger full on the turn/river, so be it. I'd cap him off every time. Heck, he could be betting three kings for all you know.

Hand 2 - Yeesh. Second ace obviously kills your chances, but I'd overcall b/c the pot's so big. Too much improvement. Oh well. I don't think you should raise preflop either.

ScottieK

11-29-2005, 06:33 PM

:grunching

Hand 1: You have the full house, raise the turn!

Hand 2: I fold or call the turn, probably fold. Too weaktight?
/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Edit: Having read the replies I guess it was.

11-29-2005, 06:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Your comments needed. I am officially on tilt now so please serious comments only please. Scarcasm is ok but use it skillfully.

I have a special file for hands like the second one. Do You See Why?

Party Poker 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) link (http://www.darksun.lunarpages.com/poker/)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero calls, 1 folds, CO checks, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5.00 SB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

River: (5.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7.50 BB.

Party Poker 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) link (http://www.darksun.lunarpages.com/poker/)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, MP calls, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8.00 SB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP calls, SB folds.

Turn: (5.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, MP 3-bets, Hero caps, UTG calls, MP calls.

River: (17.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, MP calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 20.50 BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hand 1 - bet the turn. If not, c/r the turn. If not c/r the river.

Hand 2 - Looks ok to me, turn cap might be a little too much but three handed I think it's ok.

11-29-2005, 06:35 PM

Hand 1: Bet,Bet,Bet,Bet,Bet,Bet... Don't check/call. You have the best hand here 9 out of 10 times and you don't even make the pot bigger. Bet! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Hand 2: Oh well. That just plain sucks. I fold this since I don't see myself winning. Since MP2 is calling too, he has something aswell and I get to see their cards. I fold and throw something within my reach.

11-29-2005, 07:45 PM

I'm curious if you saw that you flopped a full house on the first hand. To me, that looks like someone played a set, not a full house. Since villain comes to life when the third flushcard hits, there's an extremely high chance he has a flush. You have to raise and probably even cap this turn!

The second hand, I'd probably not overcall the river. Especially since it really looked like someone caught something when the ace hit on the turn.

Buccaneer

11-29-2005, 08:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm curious if you saw that you flopped a full house on the first hand. To me, that looks like someone played a set, not a full house. Since villain comes to life when the third flushcard hits, there's an extremely high chance he has a flush. You have to raise and probably even cap this turn!

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course I saw that I flopped the boat. I have also had disaster strike every time that I have had anything higher than two pair after the flop, BOTH on line and live play in the last two and a half weeks. I am gun shy unless I have the absolute nuts. Take a look at the second hand and that is what keeps happening to me with no success, none. Just before the first hand I had a set, not trips but a set, I bet it agressively the whole way through and saw the impossible draw that someone decided to play make the river. Kind of takes the wind out of your sails. The way this crew was playing I could have been up against a K5o and never known it till I inflated the pot and lost big.

RiverDood

11-29-2005, 08:59 PM

On the actual hand play, I'll echo what's already been said, but I think it's worth taking a moment to talk about tilt and 6-max.

Anyone else find that 6-max is an especially ugly game for the tilt-prone? In a 10-player game, it's pretty easy to regroup after a skanky bad beat. Just throw away Q8s, A7, etc. for a couple hands until the world seems calm and good again.

But in 6-max, there are far more borderline hands that invite tougher decisions. It's harder to let a few hands go by. Meanwhile, it's all too easy to bang chips around on a mediocre hand out of position -- or to press on with good hands on hostile boards -- trying to win "my" money back. And that can soon give way to a paralyzing reluctance to re-raise anyone, no matter how good our hand, because we will surely be outdrawn again.

I'm just a sample of one. But in the past couple months, I've profitably laughed off plenty of weird stuff at 10-person tables, while twice setting fire to my chips trying to turn things around at 6-max.

Buccaneer

11-29-2005, 09:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Is raising KQo, out of the BB, against 3 opponents standard for everyone?

[/ QUOTE ]
Miller in Getting Started.... suggest RAISING AKo, AQo, AJo, KQo from the big blind. Of course I doubt if Miller et al. ever played a hand of .50/1 limit on line in thier lives.

My thinking on why I raised this hand preflop:
<ul type="square">
Our little table from hell was chasing to the river. They were out of control. Sometimes they folded to multiple agressive moves if they did not hit thier miracle draw by the river. If my hand won I would win $2 for a .50 bet. <scarcasm> I was thinking that if some beeding rectum wanted to play a weak ace then he could pay me extra and if he hit a runner, runner full house then he could feel better about himself for being stupid.</scarcasm> I didn't think the world would conspire against this little raise and attempt to show strength and smack me down to the pit of tilt hell. [/list]

Do you think that my preflop play affected the results of this hand in any way other than costing me one more bb?

Can you tell me why?

tyler_cracker

11-29-2005, 09:26 PM

To reassure you, let me say this first:

[ QUOTE ]

Do you think that my preflop play affected the results of this hand in any way other than costing me one more bb?

[/ QUOTE ]

No i do not.

[ QUOTE ]

Miller in Getting Started.... suggest RAISING AKo, AQo, AJo, KQo from the big blind.

[/ QUOTE ]

AK and AQ are easy raises. AJ and KQ are close, which is why i asked if raising from the BB was standard for everyone. Also, i *just* had this debate with STT 2+2er Slim_Pickens last week. Here is what SSH says:

[ QUOTE ]

You can open with any of these hands [AK, AQ, AJ, KQ offsuits]. Raise any of these hands if it has not already been raised.[40]

[40]: If the pot is already many-handed, perhaps five or six limpers, consider just limping with AJ and KQ. Your preflop edge is relatively small against so many opponents, and your call should give you strategic advantages which can make up for your small theoretical loss from not raising by allowing you to outplay your opponents after the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

The hand chart for loose games says if there is no raise in front of you, raise AJ/KQ *except* in the blinds (the cutoff is AQ).

My default play in most positions with AJ and KQ is to just raise, because i (like to think i) play better than my opponents postflop and want to get more money in while they'll call with their garbage hands. From the blinds, though, you're OOP for the rest of the hand and no one who limped is going to fold their two live cards.

But it is close -- probably so close that this whole debate is moot and we can go back to flaming you for check/calling your flopped full house /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

Buccaneer

11-29-2005, 10:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
But it is close -- probably so close that this whole debate is moot and we can go back to flaming you for check/calling your flopped full house .

[/ QUOTE ]

Man I am going to be wiping the snot off my monitor for weeks. That comment makes that hand almost worth it.

Buccaneer

11-29-2005, 11:15 PM

You know I like your comments about tilt/6max. It is a bit faster and with less built in recovery time and I have no business on 6max, but from time to time I like to give it a shot and I usually do ok.

The last few weeks I was getting cards that I could only dream of. If I played a marginal hand the flop hit me hard and and tossed me a life jacket for the river. It was like I couldn't loose. This is great for a while but soon you tend to get to big for your own britches. I found my self not just playing marginal hands but pushing them to far and playing those hands that you should muck. I now am dealing with variance that has decided to crush me rather than reward me. My play changed so I have to get back to the basics. I am setting goals to do this.

If tilt is an emotional response to variance then I guess it is possible to tilt due to winning more than your share.