10/20 shorthanded: raised on the turn with top 2

[creedofhubris]

2100 effective stacks. Opponent in this hand is solid, better than me shorthanded and heads-up. He's loose and capable of mixing it up, though against me he usually plays pretty ABC. Against me he likes to make a lot of small value bets and raises with big hands, since he knows that I don't call huge bets that often.

Villain is tilting a bit after losing a stack to a donkey, but he's in general quite capable of making laydowns.

4-handed. I make it 60 UTG with A/images/graemlins/heart.gifQ/images/graemlins/spade.gif. Villain calls from BB.

Flop:

A/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Villain checks, I bet 70, villain calls.

Turn:

Q/images/graemlins/club.gif

Villain checks, I bet 150, he makes it 350.

Based on my action, I think villain puts me squarely on an ace.

My read is that villain is unlikely to be on a draw himself, he either makes his move with those on the flop or check/calls all the way.

[slickpoppa]

Call his raise, call any reasonable river bet, or bet any non-spade if he checks. If he pushes on a spade river you will probably have to fold, but you only have to worry about that 18% of the time.

You probable have the better hand, but if you put in the third bet on the turn to deter a flush draw you will probably not get any more value from lower 2 pair and will commit your stack against a set. If he does have a flush draw he will miss 80% of the time and possible bluff into you with air.

[arod15]

Call his turn and see what the river brings. Your ahead here most often hopefully the river brings an ace and you crush his 88 (if thats what he had)

[soah]

What sort of "small" value bet would you be facing on the river? Is his hand range here something like A8, A6, 86, 88, 66? You're way ahead or way behind with something right near the middle of his possible range of hands, so I tend to just call down. Unless you've understated his current level of tilt, I would expect that any attempt to extract more from worse hands would merely scare away the lower end of his range and lose you more against his sets. This seems too easy though, so I must be missing something.

[Rococo]

[ QUOTE ]
Call his raise, call any reasonable river bet, or bet any non-spade if he checks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Min raise ~ push if he raises again, and value bet the river. I think in this spot you're up against A 10/ AJ maybe, and hopefully aces up.



Tex

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]
2100 effective stacks. Opponent in this hand is solid, better than me shorthanded and heads-up. He's loose and capable of mixing it up, though against me he usually plays pretty ABC. Against me he likes to make a lot of small value bets and raises with big hands, since he knows that I don't call huge bets that often.

Villain is tilting a bit after losing a stack to a donkey, but he's in general quite capable of making laydowns.

4-handed. I make it 60 UTG with A/images/graemlins/heart.gifQ/images/graemlins/spade.gif. Villain calls from BB.

Flop:

A/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Villain checks, I bet 70, villain calls.

Turn:

Q/images/graemlins/club.gif

Villain checks, I bet 150, he makes it 350.



[/ QUOTE ]

I call the 350.

River is 4/images/graemlins/club.gif

Villain pauses and bets $200. (This is one of those "small value bets" I was talking about, he likes to milk tight players.)

[Maulik]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2100 effective stacks. Opponent in this hand is solid, better than me shorthanded and heads-up. He's loose and capable of mixing it up, though against me he usually plays pretty ABC. Against me he likes to make a lot of small value bets and raises with big hands, since he knows that I don't call huge bets that often.

Villain is tilting a bit after losing a stack to a donkey, but he's in general quite capable of making laydowns.

4-handed. I make it 60 UTG with A/images/graemlins/heart.gifQ/images/graemlins/spade.gif. Villain calls from BB.

Flop:

A/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Villain checks, I bet 70, villain calls.

Turn:

Q/images/graemlins/club.gif

Villain checks, I bet 150, he makes it 350.



[/ QUOTE ]

I call the 350.

River is 4/images/graemlins/club.gif

Villain pauses and bets $200. (This is one of those "small value bets" I was talking about, he likes to milk tight players.)

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't raise the river unless you want to open yourself for a big raise. What did you choose and why?

[greygoo]

Just call to avoid tough decision?

Is he capable of checking a set twice to PF raiser on that board? It seems unlikely, so my first reaction was to raise, but if we put him on less than a set, what can he call a raise with here? Maybe if he calls with 2 pairs, make a "small milking raise", but I play SH with really bad players too much to give an advice on how to play against tough aggresive opposition. On the other hand, if he puts in another raise, you can still get away?
Dunno, I'm confused. I guess it comes down to table dynamics and how likely for villain to have a hand that beats hero against how likely he is to call with worse 2 pair. Given your description he will not come over the top without a better hand.
Kinda hard to judge without playing against villain for a while? At least in this case there is a headache-free solution.

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2100 effective stacks. Opponent in this hand is solid, better than me shorthanded and heads-up. He's loose and capable of mixing it up, though against me he usually plays pretty ABC. Against me he likes to make a lot of small value bets and raises with big hands, since he knows that I don't call huge bets that often.

Villain is tilting a bit after losing a stack to a donkey, but he's in general quite capable of making laydowns.

4-handed. I make it 60 UTG with A/images/graemlins/heart.gifQ/images/graemlins/spade.gif. Villain calls from BB.

Flop:

A/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Villain checks, I bet 70, villain calls.

Turn:

Q/images/graemlins/club.gif

Villain checks, I bet 150, he makes it 350.



[/ QUOTE ]

I call the 350.

River is 4/images/graemlins/club.gif

Villain pauses and bets $200. (This is one of those "small value bets" I was talking about, he likes to milk tight players.)

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't raise the river unless you want to open yourself for a big raise. What did you choose and why?

[/ QUOTE ]

I raised to $600. I knew that he had a made hand, since the $200 makes no sense as a bluff. I decided that if he had a set he'd have wanted to get more value out of it. So I was usually best, and he'd find it hard to fold to a milking raise of my own. But just in case, I also figured that $600 left me room to get out if he popped me again. (We each would have $1000 behind after that raise.)

$600 is also the sort of raise I might make if I had AK/AJ facing a $200 bet and were feeling frisky, so he doesn't really know how powerful I am.

[flawless_victory]

i like your play thus far, creed. looks fine.
on river, no way i am letting this guy off for a $200 showdown, raise and raise big.
i would make it 1K more, fvck him. A8 no good ho.

[Riverman]

I have a hard time believing that your opponent is actually a good player given how he played this hand.

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a hard time believing that your opponent is actually a good player given how he played this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

He knows what he's doing, and he knows I know what I'm doing, and neither of us want to play huge pots against the other guy.

[turnipmonster]

I like this raise amount a lot. I was thinking I would have raised a lot more, but 400 more looks weird/good for a few reasons.

[flawless_victory]

never noviced this cake icon b4, thats ill.
happy birthday dog.

[turnipmonster]

thanks!

[Roman]

I would bet slightly more on flop/turn, raise slightly more on riv, but your line looks good. I expect A8 and whatnot pay off here.

[radioheadfan]

I made this type of river raise about a week ago with the 2nd nut flush on a paired board (the river flushed and paired the board at the same time). My opponent came over the top all in, I vomited all over my keyboard, folded, and then wished I had just called so I could see WTF his cards were.

Just call.

[JMa]

calling river is awful. raise it up.

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2100 effective stacks. Opponent in this hand is solid, better than me shorthanded and heads-up. He's loose and capable of mixing it up, though against me he usually plays pretty ABC. Against me he likes to make a lot of small value bets and raises with big hands, since he knows that I don't call huge bets that often.

Villain is tilting a bit after losing a stack to a donkey, but he's in general quite capable of making laydowns.

4-handed. I make it 60 UTG with A/images/graemlins/heart.gifQ/images/graemlins/spade.gif. Villain calls from BB.

Flop:

A/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Villain checks, I bet 70, villain calls.

Turn:

Q/images/graemlins/club.gif

Villain checks, I bet 150, he makes it 350.



[/ QUOTE ]

I call the 350.

River is 4/images/graemlins/club.gif

Villain pauses and bets $200. (This is one of those "small value bets" I was talking about, he likes to milk tight players.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I make it $600, villain pauses and calls.

Villain tables Q8, my hand is good.

In hindsight I think by throwing out such a weak bet with a decent hand he's committed to calling a normal-sized raise here, in case I view his bet as an invitation to blast him out with missed spades (or value bet my AK). So I think $1000 on the river is an ok size.

But if I blast turn and river, he probably gets out.

Villain leaves table immediately after this hand, I imagine he's pissed at how he played it. I give me a B and him a C+ mostly due to his preflop ????? call.