Feeling sexy - Q8s

[donger]

BB in this hand is 30/20/2 and a touch spastic from what I've observed. The table probably thinks I'm tilting at this point, from having recently absorbed some punishment, and they're probably right.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.fourthnut.com/scgi-bin/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Donger is SB with 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Donger completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Donger bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">Donger 3-bets</font>, BB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Donger bets</font>, BB calls.

River: (6.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Donger checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Donger raises</font>, BB calls.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

[EvanJC]

perfect

[peterchi]

I don't do this but I don't see anything wrong with it against the right opponent. Looks like it was fun, anyways.

[Roy6]

I like this, although I fold PF, especially against this BB. Shouldn't I?

Also: don't include 'results' (I mean that villain called your river raise)

[peterchi]

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I like this, although I fold PF, especially against this BB. Shouldn't I?

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That's a good point. I'd probably still call, but I'm curious to hear more thoughts on this.

[jt1]

I guess you can fold PF if BB has been raising out of turn. I wouldn't fold on his numbers alone, though

[gharp]

[ QUOTE ]
The table probably thinks I'm tilting at this point

[/ QUOTE ]
This is the main reason why this play is good, IMO. They'll think that your 3-bet on the flop could be any piece of it or nothing, so they'll likely try to value bet on the river.

Without that piece of information, it's hard to see why someone would bet this river for you (and why they would pay off the raise).

I dont like it. Bet the river. Given the development of the board, there is little assurance he will bet this river.

[donger]

[ QUOTE ]
I like this, although I fold PF, especially against this BB. Shouldn't I?

Also: don't include 'results' (I mean that villain called your river raise)

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding Q8s in this situation would be very very weak.

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I fold PF, especially against this BB.

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Weak.

[EvanJC]

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Given the development of the board, there is little assurance he will bet this river.


[/ QUOTE ]

i disagree. every 30/20 is a lagtard at heart. i dont often like the sexy but i like it here

[peterchi]

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every 30/20 is a lagtard at heart.

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Stop making fun of me. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

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Given the development of the board, there is little assurance he will bet this river.


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i disagree. every 30/20 is a lagtard at heart. i dont often like the sexy but i like it here

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A 30/20 may LAG it up on the flop with a pair plus an Ace overcard, but when the T overcard hits, the flush fills, and the gutshot straight draw fills, a 30/20 will take a free showdown with a marginal holding.

I put the 30/20 on either a worse 8 like 89o, or a middle pair with a good kicker like A5o.

[donger]

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The table probably thinks I'm tilting at this point

[/ QUOTE ]
This is the main reason why this play is good, IMO. They'll think that your 3-bet on the flop could be any piece of it or nothing, so they'll likely try to value bet on the river.

Without that piece of information, it's hard to see why someone would bet this river for you (and why they would pay off the raise).

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, my in-game quick-reasoning was that, given the board, a lot of straight draws just got there on the river, and if he was on a gutshot that missed, he just made a pair.

Given that reasoning, though, sexying is probably wrong since if he made a straight, I get in a 3bet, and all the times he paired some aspect of his junky gutshot, he might check behind. I say "might" since he's way more likely than a competent player to make a losing river bet.

The fact that he's more likely to bet his middle pairs and weak hands when checked to make this play closer than it first appears.

[donger]

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Given the development of the board, there is little assurance he will bet this river.


[/ QUOTE ]

i disagree. every 30/20 is a lagtard at heart. i dont often like the sexy but i like it here

[/ QUOTE ]

A 30/20 may LAG it up on the flop with a pair plus an Ace overcard, but when the T overcard hits, the flush fills, and the gutshot straight draw fills, a 30/20 will take a free showdown with a marginal holding.

I put the 30/20 on either a worse 8 like 89o, or a middle pair with a good kicker like A5o.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nobody is afraid of this flush. The T is not a scary overcard. You're exaggerating the scariness of this board. Plus, lagtards aren't afraid of anything, anyway. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

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Given the development of the board, there is little assurance he will bet this river.


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i disagree. every 30/20 is a lagtard at heart. i dont often like the sexy but i like it here

[/ QUOTE ]

A 30/20 may LAG it up on the flop with a pair plus an Ace overcard, but when the T overcard hits, the flush fills, and the gutshot straight draw fills, a 30/20 will take a free showdown with a marginal holding.

I put the 30/20 on either a worse 8 like 89o, or a middle pair with a good kicker like A5o.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nobody is afraid of this flush. The T is not a scary overcard. You're exaggerating the scariness of this board. Plus, lagtards aren't afraid of anything, anyway. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

The board is not crap-your-pants scary, of course, but the 30/20 doesn't exactly have a monster holding, either. Chances are his holding is extremely marginal. So if you choose to sexy, you need to count on him making an aggressive value bet with a marginal hand, where the board contains triple-threat scare cards (flush, overcard, straight). This just wont happen very often. BTW, what were the results?

[donger]

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Given the development of the board, there is little assurance he will bet this river.


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i disagree. every 30/20 is a lagtard at heart. i dont often like the sexy but i like it here

[/ QUOTE ]

A 30/20 may LAG it up on the flop with a pair plus an Ace overcard, but when the T overcard hits, the flush fills, and the gutshot straight draw fills, a 30/20 will take a free showdown with a marginal holding.

I put the 30/20 on either a worse 8 like 89o, or a middle pair with a good kicker like A5o.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nobody is afraid of this flush. The T is not a scary overcard. You're exaggerating the scariness of this board. Plus, lagtards aren't afraid of anything, anyway. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

The board is not crap-your-pants scary, of course, but the 30/20 doesn't exactly have a monster holding, either. Chances are his holding is extremely marginal. So if you choose to sexy, you need to count on him making an aggressive value bet with a marginal hand, where the board contains triple-threat scare cards (flush, overcard, straight). This just wont happen very often. BTW, what were the results?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is wrong. Isn't one of the characteristics of laggy players that they DO bet a lot of marginal holdings that most players check?

[MikeNaked]

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I dont like it. Bet the river. Given the development of the board, there is little assurance he will bet this river.

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Given Dong's read, he can be quite sure that Laggy will bet.

The only reason to bet this river is if you're reasonably sure you'll get 3-bet. The question is: is the bet/3bet line &gt; teh sexy?

[gharp]

Why does everyone think a 30/20/2 player is LAGgy. These are pretty close to ideal 6-max stats, IMO.

[EvanJC]

i'm more of a 26/18 guy and i bet this river with a strong eight and tons of pocket pairs when checked to. i still like the spot

that river c/r is a bold-ass move, but nh otherwise.

[irishpint]

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Why does everyone think a 30/20/2 player is LAGgy. These are pretty close to ideal 6-max stats, IMO.

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meeeeeeee

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I dont like it. Bet the river. Given the development of the board, there is little assurance he will bet this river.

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Given Dong's read, he can be quite sure that Laggy will bet.


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30/20/2 is not that laggy here. 30/20/4 would be quite different.