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ChrisMonkeymaker

11-29-2005, 02:22 PM

1987 was bar none the greatest WSOP final table ever. Here are the top finishers:

Johnny Chan
Frank Henderson
Bob Ciaffone
Jim Spain
Howard Lederer
Dan Harrington
Eldon Elias
Mickey Appleman
Jack Keller

But which one of these should be first runner-up?

1980:
Stu Ungar
Doyle Brunson
Jay Heimowitz
Johnny Moss
Charles Dunwoody
I don't know the rest of the top nine.

1988:
Johnny Chan
Erik Seidel
Ron Graham
Humberto Brenes
T.J. Cloutier
Jim Bechtel
Quinton Nixon
Mike Cox
Jess Alto

1981:
Stu Ungar
Perry Green
Gener Fisher
Ken Smith
Bill Smith
Jay Heimowitz
Bobby Baldwin
Andy Moore
Sam Petrillo

11-29-2005, 08:21 PM

Bar none, huh? I'd take 1980 with Stuey, Dolly and Moss over 1987. Gabe Kaplan finished seventh after starting the final day with a huge chip lead.

There were also some real powerhouse tables in the 70's, but every player in those tournaments either was a top pro or has been held up to the light in the telling of history.

Gary

betgo

11-29-2005, 08:37 PM

How about 1971

Johny Moss
Puggy Pearson
Sailor Roberts
Jack Straus
Doyle Brunson
Jimmy Casella

Those were the only 6 entries that year.

1972 was a little stronger. The final 6 of 8 entries were:

Johny Moss
Puggy Pearson
Sailor Roberts
Jack Strauss
Ararillo Slim Preston
Doyle Brunson

11-29-2005, 09:59 PM

Bar none? Not sure you can say that. Those '80 and '88 tables look just as good if not better.

ChrisMonkeymaker

11-29-2005, 10:28 PM

The 1980 final four was definitely scary. Moss - considered the premier poker player in the 50's and early 60's. Candidate for greatest of all-time. Brunson - considered the greatest since the late 60's and the 70's. Candidate for greatest of all-time. Stu Ungar - premier player in the early 80's. Candidate for greatest of all-time. Heimowitz - arguably the greatest amateur of all time.

But we're talking final table here, not final four. Unfortunately, I couldn't find a list of the remaining four players in the 1980 final table.

I still think 1987 was the greatest. Harrington, Chan, and Keller in the final table. Plus bracelet winners Henderson, Graham, and Lederer. With high level theorist Ciaffone as a bonus.

DarthIgnurnt

11-29-2005, 11:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
1972 final 6 of 8 entries were:

Johny Moss
Puggy Pearson
Sailor Roberts
Jack Strauss
Ararillo Slim Preston
Doyle Brunson

[/ QUOTE ]

My mind immediately went to this one, but it's really hard to say ... I like how another poster put it ... that they have:

[ QUOTE ]
been held up to the light in the telling of history

[/ QUOTE ]

I've read a lot of poker bios/history stuff and it never ceases to amaze me how these guys assume that the only 6 guys in the world that played NLHE at that time are still the best players in history. They were also the best golfers, sports bettors, gin players, domino players, and pool players in history.

I'd give a slight edge to 1980, with 1987 coming in second.

Army Eye

11-30-2005, 12:05 AM

2001 has to be in the running. Mortenson, Hellmuth, Matusow, Tomko, and Gordon made the final six.

11-30-2005, 12:06 AM

11-30-2005, 12:36 AM

2005 Kanter Hachem Black Barch....nuff said

betgo

11-30-2005, 01:07 AM

PartySNGer

11-30-2005, 01:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I've read a lot of poker bios/history stuff and it never ceases to amaze me how these guys assume that the only 6 guys in the world that played NLHE at that time are still the best players in history. They were also the best golfers, sports bettors, gin players, domino players, and pool players in history.

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent point. I've always thought Amarillo Slim was one of the most overrated players of all time. Without his table talk he's just an average poker player.

Brunson is clearly one of the greatest of all time as he is still doing excellent today and at 70+ years of age.

2+2 wannabe

11-30-2005, 02:09 AM

11-30-2005, 02:35 AM

1990 deserves an honorable mention. 5th-9th place were all notable players: Berry Johnston, Al Krux, Rod Peate, John Bonetti, and Stu Ungar. Ironically though ESPN only showed play when it got down to the top 4 players.

betgo

11-30-2005, 04:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've read a lot of poker bios/history stuff and it never ceases to amaze me how these guys assume that the only 6 guys in the world that played NLHE at that time are still the best players in history.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I was wrong. Moss + Brunson + and Amarillo Slim = 3 were all fish.

[/ QUOTE ]

you're missing the other 3 non-fish sir....the ones everyone's heard about....

P.S. you misspelled child molestor

[/ QUOTE ]

I just mentioned those 3, because they are obvious nonfish. The whole field was very strong. Because it was NLHE, there may have been some strong stud players from NYC who didn't participate. They probably weren't the 6 strongest players in the world, but they were 6 of the strongest players in the world.

As for Amarillo Slim, between the child molesting and andle shooting / cheating his reputation seems to be taking a dive. He seems like a typical hustler type with a lot of charm but not really a nice guy.

Tuds75

11-30-2005, 04:55 AM

1st: Jack Strauss (Underated but highly respected fearless player. maybe best bluffer ever 2 WSOP braclets)
2nd: Dewey Tomko (2 runner-up WSOP ME finishes, 2.7 million in tournament earnings, 3 braclets)
3rd: Barry Johnston ('86 WSOP champion, 1.9 million in tourney wins, 5 braclets)
4th: Doyle Brunson (we all know him, 10 braclets)
5th: A.J. Meyers (2 braclets)
6th: Dody Roach (2 braclets)
7th: Buster Jackson (1 braclet)
8th: Sailor Roberts ('75 WSOP ME champ, 2 braclets)
9th: Carl Cannon (I got nothing)

Stats:
* 4 of 9 players were WSOP ME champions
* 3 total runner-ups in the WSOP ME
* 8 of 9 had won braclets
* 27 total braclets won

Just because a player is not well know doesn't make them a bad player and vice versa, and known poker player doesn't make them a legend.

'80, '85 and '88 are STRONG Tables, but This is the best WSOP Final Table EVER.

Tuds

11-30-2005, 09:08 AM

Wow, Without reading others thoughts this is a tough choice. I have to go with 1988, 1981, then 1980.. Can't help feel like im disrespecting Brunson and Moss oh well.

11-30-2005, 09:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
2005 Kanter Hachem Black Barch....nuff said

[/ QUOTE ]

How can you forget Danaman in this list lol

DarthIgnurnt

11-30-2005, 09:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I've read a lot of poker bios/history stuff and it never ceases to amaze me how these guys assume that the only 6 guys in the world that played NLHE at that time are still the best players in history.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I was wrong. Moss, Brunson, and Amarillo Slim were all fish.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL ... it's not clear to me where I implied that these guys were "fish". In fact I said this table was the first one I thought of as the greatest of all time.

My point is that these guys tend to be (over)glorified because they were pioneers, and literally the only guys that played at the time. All of them were talented players, and clearly Brunson must be in any discussion of the greatest ever (and on the 1980 final table, my choice here).

This argument will inevitably lead to the same point as the greatest boxer, basketball player, baseball player of all time discussion. Certain players dominated their eras but would be average at best in the current one (like George Mikan and Amarillo Slim), and certain players are timeless, all-time greats (like Wilt Chamberlain, and Doyle Brunson).

11-30-2005, 02:33 PM

Don't know if it would be considered "the best", but 2000's final table was decently stacked-

- Ferguson (1st)
- Cloutier (2nd)
- Hassan Habib (4th)
- McManus (5th)
- Jeff Shulman (7th)

TheJackal

11-30-2005, 06:24 PM

1987, 1999-2001 for me at least.

Zetack

11-30-2005, 06:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
How about 1971

Johny Moss
Puggy Pearson
Sailor Roberts
Jack Straus
Doyle Brunson
Jimmy Casella

Those were the only 6 entries that year.

1972 was a little stronger. The final 6 of 8 entries were:

Johny Moss
Puggy Pearson
Sailor Roberts
Jack Strauss
Ararillo Slim Preston
Doyle Brunson

[/ QUOTE ]

I found this interesting since in the worst final table thread I picked 1971 as the worst and gave an honorable mention to 1972.

--Zetack