someone told me i misplayed this

[TStoneMBD]

[ QUOTE ]
Hero opens w/ KdKh 6 handed UTG, BB (unknown) 3bets, Hero Caps, BB Calls

Flop: 9dThQc BB checks, Hero Bets, BB c/res, Hero Calls
Turn:Tc BB bets, Hero wiggles mouse between call and raise and then calls
River: 2c BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls

[/ QUOTE ]

what do you guys think

[krishanleong]

I raise the turn.

Krishan

[Lmn55d]

I would 3bet the flop mainly because I don't like the idea of putting 3bets in on the turn or river since his range contains 99, TT, QQ, AA and possibly JK. Who knows, maybe he'll cap it up with AQ/AJ/KQ or JJ! I don't have a problem with waiting to raise, but I think you're better off raising the turn than than you are raising the river. There's a chance he will check/call the river or check/fold if he was on a draw when he would have called (or even semibluff 3bet!) the turn.

The benefit to raising the river on a club is that you'll make money when ahead, but you wont lose an extra bet when behind. A non-club river might get three-bet. Would you have raised a non-club river?

The risk of raising the turn is that you get 3-bet and it costs you substantially more to see the showdown (when you are crushed behind either middle pair that made trips, a str8, etc.)

Im indifferent between the approaches, particularly lacking any reads.

[Spicymoose]

[ QUOTE ]
I raise the turn.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

I do too, but now that hand you posted with villain waiting has me second guessing myself.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I raise the turn.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

I do too, but now that hand you posted with villain waiting has me second guessing myself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Those are absurdly different situations. (If I'm thinking of the correct hand)

Krishan

Boards like this are very difficult for me. I have trouble trying to quantify how often we are ahead and adjusting my line appropriately. For example, in this hand I would assume that we weren't ahead that much more than half the time and shy away from raising the turn in fear of the 3 bet. It's frustrating. Am I just making an overly pessemistic assumption?

[B Dids]

Basically what Lmn said. I'd rather get more bets in on the flop and then move into call down/fold mode if I don't like what happens than get slapped around on the turn. I think this depends a lot on what your range for him is and how you think he'll respond to that further action.

Raising the flop with the potential for getting slapped should only be different from raising the turn with the potential for getting slapped around in that the flop 3 bet will be interperted as less strength (I think?). This might cause the villain to cap with something like AQ. The T doesn't really change anything.

I might be weak-tight for asking, but was the OP intending to fold to a 3 bet on the river?

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hero opens w/ KdKh 6 handed UTG, BB (unknown) 3bets, Hero Caps, BB Calls

Flop: 9dThQc BB checks, Hero Bets, BB c/res, Hero Calls
Turn:Tc BB bets, Hero wiggles mouse between call and raise and then calls
River: 2c BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls

[/ QUOTE ]

what do you guys think

[/ QUOTE ]

id raise the turn. he might puss out with KQ or QJ on the river, especially if its an A or 8 (and he doesnt have a J) or something

[irishpint]

i like raising the flop here- get the $ in while we're ahead and we can go into calldown mode if the board gets worse. 3bet flop, bet turn bet river.

[NLSoldier]

I dont think there is a very big difference between any of the 3 options and would probably do them all close to equally.

[TMFS9]

[ QUOTE ]
3bet flop

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand how you can't 3 bet this flop

[MAxx]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hero opens w/ KdKh 6 handed UTG, BB (unknown) 3bets, Hero Caps, BB Calls

Flop: 9dThQc BB checks, Hero Bets, BB c/res, Hero Calls
Turn:Tc BB bets, Hero wiggles mouse between call and raise and then calls
River: 2c BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls

[/ QUOTE ]

what do you guys think

[/ QUOTE ]

id raise the turn. he might puss out with KQ or QJ on the river, especially if its an A or 8 (and he doesnt have a J) or something

[/ QUOTE ]

Just checking here. Say you raise the turn and get 3bet... aproaching 11-1 headsup and this action. You could possibly have the best hand although the 3bet would not be a positive indicator. Now you may have 0 outs (yeah worst but unlikely scenario). But you may have 6 outs if behind...but maybe only 2. Maybe with little analyis 4 could potentially be a reasonable estimate of outs when behind. Given these thoughts, and considering the likely range of hands of villain.... is this an easy turn call of a 3 bet? Seems routine to me.

If you call the turn 3bet and do not improve, are you autocalling river for one more?

I think I saw this hand in your video (see?...people do go to your site and watch them) and I remember thinking how I would have raised the turn. Then, after seeing what you did, I liked the river raise.

Here's why:

When you're ahead, you will extract the same amount either way vs his range (I don't think he folds AQ, KQ, QJ or even JJ to a turn raise or a river raise). When you're behind, there are hands (i.e. AA or AT) that will punish you on the turn, but not on the river.

Also, the ten pairing on the turn is probably the determining factor swaying this to a river raise. Now, QJ and JJ don't have your K outs to complete an open end. If a low blank hits the turn, I'd raise right there.

One other thing is the reverse implied odds situation. Almost any losing hand in his range has outs against KK, and, leaving him in control while you have position, you can always choose just to call a river bet when a bad card (Ace, Queen or 8) falls.

[Shillx]

Hey man. I typed out some long [censored] but decided to get rid of it. The main idea was that I liked the calldown line (don't like a river raise much but I guess it gets thin value, and I mean thin). If he as 99+/AQ/KQ/KJ you are about a coin flip on the flop and turn.

Also remember that you don't know how good his hand is b/c of the preflop cap. Stuff like AA and QQ can't be forgotton. Given what we know, I like a calldown after the flop c/r.

Brad

[mmcd]

I think that given your preflop cap, a lot of the time, that flop checkraise is a hand that's looking for action rather than to see where it's at. Since your opponent is completely unknown I'd probably play it as you did at 20 or below and just call the river at 30 or above based on the "average" players tendencies. I might deviate from either plan based on how much he has in front of him and his location. LA area players and Europeans are more likely to get raised as are players with either abnormally large or fairly small stacks in front of them. In any event, it's really close and I don't have a problem with playing the river either way. Preflop, sometimes I flat-call and sometimes I cap. I definately don't like a flop 3-bet here because it allows him to accomplish his goal of getting excessive action when he flopped a big hand. A turn raise is also pretty dumb given the fact that you probably have somewhere between 3 and 4 outs on average if you get 3-bet.

[TStoneMBD]

in the hand i was actually just planning on calling down after the flop checkraise, but when the turn paired the board i thought it increased the likelihood of my hand being ahead enough for me to get a value raise in somewhere.