BB play against a non-tricky player -- standard?

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

Live 10/20 game with 1/2 kill - no kill this hand - table is 7 handed. Villain (MP) is passive (but not overly) and not tricky. CO is a pre-flop LAG but more reasonable after the flop (and running very cold).

Hero is BB with K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif.

Preflop: Fold to MP, MP calls, CO raises, Button folds, SB folds, Hero calls, MP calls.

Flop (6.5SB): T /images/graemlins/club.gif 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif.

Hero checks. MP bets. CO folds. Hero calls.

Turn (4.25BB): A /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Hero bets. MP calls.

River (6.25BB): A /images/graemlins/club.gif

Hero bets.

[brettbrettr]

PM with details of venue please.

I think I'd check-fold the river, I've been doing lots of check-folding on rivers lately, and I'm not sure if that's right. Pre-flop, flop and turn seem ok to me, though.

[jt1]

i check fold the turn after check calling the flop

but i'd lead the flop

If the villain is not tricky and kinda passive then that means he has you beat on the flop. This kind of player betting into the preflop raiser actually shows alot of strength, his most likely hand is 10x. I would call the flop since I have the odds to see one more card, then I would check and fold the turn unimproved. You really only have 2 choices on the turn:
1) check and fold becuz you are trailing and you dont have the odds to continue.
OR...
2) check and raise becuz you believe the villain will fold a 10x type hand if you checkraise the scarecard ace.

Betting out the turn doesnt really accomplish anything IMO, I think checking and folding the turn is usually the best move.

[callmedonnie]

When a limper bets into a raiser and a field of three I tend to believe him a bit. I might take a stab at turn, but unless I know he can fold a river I think I'm c/f. fwiw, I c/f the turn here a lot, but player dependent.

[jt1]

sorry, i didn't see that CO raised pre flop

I still check fold turn

I'm not sure if I could have called that flop or not. Am I not counting outs right? I say 6 1/2 at best.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
PM with details of venue please.

I think I'd check-fold the river, I've been doing lots of check-folding on rivers lately, and I'm not sure if that's right. Pre-flop, flop and turn seem ok to me, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

My bad, I miseread it. When a non-tricky player bets into the PFR I think your hand is fuct. c/f the turn.

Any advantage to c/r the flop with the overcard, bottom pair and backdoor flush draw? If not, how many players would need to still be in to make this a good play 3, 5, 7, infinite?.

LLL


LLL

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

[ QUOTE ]
If the villain is not tricky and kinda passive then that means he has you beat on the flop. This kind of player betting into the preflop raiser actually shows alot of strength, his most likely hand is 10x.

[/ QUOTE ]

CO was raising way too many hands preflop. I thing the passive-but-not-too-passive player would have bet any TP hand here and possibly second pair or a pocket pair. It is unlikely that she was betting a draw.

My thinking on the turn and river: Passive players without Aces are terrified of Aces. She didn't like my turn bet and I felt it was close to 50/50 that she would fold if I bet again on the river... is that wrong?

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PM with details of venue please.

I think I'd check-fold the river, I've been doing lots of check-folding on rivers lately, and I'm not sure if that's right. Pre-flop, flop and turn seem ok to me, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

My bad, I miseread it. When a non-tricky player bets into the PFR I think your hand is fuct. c/f the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't an Ace a scare card in this game? If she had AT, I would find out quickly with a raise on the turn. I am also not sure whether she would have considered raising ATs preflop -- the game was short-handed and although she was relatively passive, she wasn't a terrible player. She would definitely have raised any pair bigger than TT pre-flop.

Edit: I think I said it in the other response, but the PFR did not demand any respect. His raise did not mean much -- two suited cards of any rank or unsuited gappers were possible.

If that is your read, then you played it wrong. Even if the passive player doesnt like the ace, there is no way the typical player will lay down to a turn donk bet one on one, they will be too suspicious and they will call you down. You have to really sell the idea that you have an ace to get this person to fold, which means checkraising the turn is your only option if you want to make a play off the ace card. And if you dont think this play will work, then its time to check and fold.