tough hands

[onegymrat]

Two tough hands. Please comment. 8-16 w/kill.

1) Unknown player UTG raises. I'm in middle position and see two black kings. I just call due to very loose players in late positions. One late pos calls as does SB. Flop comes Kh10d7s. SB bets, unknown raises, I pop it to three bets. Late pos folds, SB calls and unknown thinks for about a minute and folds. Turn is Ad. SB checks to me, I bet he calls. River is Js! Sb bets, I call, he shows me AhQs. He chuckles as he takes my pot. Should I have three bet preflop?

2) Unknown turns out to be chronic raiser (CR). Raises with any Ace in hole or pairs and always on the button. After stealing three of my blinds previously, (I am two seats left of him so my BB is his button), I have the kill button in this next hand. Everyone folds to CR who is the button, and as usual he raises to 16. SB folds and I look down to see 5s7s. I call to make my stand with kill button. Flop is 7d6h3s. I bet, he raises, I call. Turn is Jh. I check, he bets, I call. River is 2d. Same sequence. He turns over 76offsuit and takes my pot. Comments?

[asdf1234]

On the first hand, if he's the kind of player who's going to bet and then call two cold back to him on a gutshot, you're not going to get him out preflop when he has AQ. I would have three bet preflop because if they are that loose, you want them putting lots of bets with inferior hands. You can't really play it any differently than you did. From the looks of it, he's not going to fold, regardless of how you play.

The second one, I think you can probably find better hands to make stands with than 75 suited or otherwise. This hand just does not play well heads up against a maniac or anybody for that matter. This was never your pot, as he started with better cards.

[Dynasty]

He chuckles as he takes my pot.

He turns over 76offsuit and takes my pot

It sounds like it's going to be a while before you have the right mental approach to become a winning player.

As for the hands, you played the first one fine. In the second hand, you were beat from start to finish so I don't know what you're bitching about.

[Ed Miller]

In hand 1, you flat-called preflop hoping that people would call with hands they would (should) fold if they knew what you had. People did make such calls, so you were successful. Sometimes you will lose the hand to these people who made the calls... but that doesn't make their calls correct. In other words, I think your cold-call is just fine.

[Rick Nebiolo]

onegymrat,

OK...

First hand)

BTF with aces and to a lesser extent kings I'll sometimes mix it up by slowing down when I'm the first raiser and now a lone opponent out of position (typically a blind) makes it three bets. Now I sacrifice the pre flop bet in order to let him take the lead in the hand and increase my chances of getting in a big raise on a later street (typically the turn). I also like this play when there is one player caught between the three better and me. But don't overuse it, usually it is best to get the money in early when you can.

Here I'd make it three bets before the flop 99.9% of the time with kings. Yeah, you hate to lose the loose players, but often enough one or two will tag along anyway (they don't throw away baby pairs or mediocre aces and QJs type hands anyway). Generally you would end up with two opponents for four bets rather than three opponents for three bets. Since you should also be three betting with your premium non pair hands (e.g., AK and maybe AQs) and some weaker pairs (e.g., QQ and JJ), you really aren't giving away your hand.

Given you smooth called pre flop I'd stick with deception at least one more round and smooth call the raise on the flop. Often enough your opponents will cap it for you and you have to love your hand here with top set, a rainbow flop with some straight draws possibly against you given you want the action.

On the turn and river things just didn't go your way. Note that my advice is not predicated on results, as AQ might get potsuck enough to hang around and spike the river jack anyway even if you played my way. However, in general I believe it is the right approach.

Second Hand)

If CR sticks to the strategy you mention first in on the button he isn't all that far off from playing correctly. BTW, I am confused, if you are playing 8/16 and you have the kill button, haven't you posted a $16 kill and the hand is now being played 16/32? Anyway, on this hand with this flop I'd tend to be a little more aggressive with top pair, backdoor flush and inside straight draw and would have lost more money. Overall aggressiveness heads up gets the money. Even here you had the straight outs and just got unlucky. It happens to all of us (except Mason ;-) ).

BTW, you shouldn't look at the pot as "your pot" until it is in front of you. This kind of thinking crops into blind defense and other areas and poisons your ability to make correct strategy judgments. The pot is just the pot.

Regards,

Rick

[Your Mom]

In the second hand, you were beat from start to finish so I don't know what you're bitching about.

Thanks Dynasty. Glad someone said this.

[Yeknom58]

First hand - I think you played it fine. As another variation you could have smooth called the flop bets and went for a check raise on the turn. Sometimes you lose these.

On the second hand I think you played it bad from start to finish. If you thought he was just betting for fun you should have re-raised him. Flop - not to bad. Turn/river -What are you doing here. You gave him no reason to slow down by check calling. Just wait it out next time, you'll get a better chance to make a move on this guy.

[JoeU]

onegymrat,

Hand #1: Definitely raise preflop. You want to get any rag/A out of the hand in the event that you flop an A. You also want to raise because you probably have the best hand at that point and want to charge the max to all other players. After that, you played it fine, and just got unlucky on the end /forums/images/icons/frown.gif .

Hand #2: This is not the hand to defend with. 57s is behind to any 8! It sounds like you were keying your play against this opponent. Two thinks to keep in mind: 1) If he is a nut, punish him when you have the goods. You have position on him. 2) Never play one opponent. This is the quickest way to dump your money. IMO, this is just another form of tilt. I oughta know, I've been there /forums/images/icons/mad.gif .

Joe