$33 - AK with an ugly board

[splashpot]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

UTG (t765)
UTG+1 (t800)
UTG+2 (t800)
MP1 (t865)
MP2 (t785)
MP3 (t840)
CO (t790)
Button (t770)
SB (t785)
Hero (t800)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls t15, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, CO calls t15, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t80</font>, UTG+2 calls t65, CO folds, SB calls t65.

Flop: (t255) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t250</font>, UTG+2 calls t250, SB folds.

Turn: (t755) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero ???

[tigerite]

Check. Hopefully he checks behind, if not, well, you're getting your stack in.

But if you bet the turn, you are only removing the chance of him making a mistake when he has TT, a lower K or whatever. Cos, let's be honest, he'll fold those.

[splashpot]

I guess the question is this - Is inducing a bluff from a worse hand more important than driving out draws?

If I'm going to call an all in from him anyways, the only reason to check would be to induce a bluff from a worse hand or get a free showdown. Betting drives out flush or straight draws. Which is more important?

[tigerite]

You have a straight draw yourself. Any other straight draw just hit. So no point in driving that out. I'll take the chance on the flush one, I think.

[splashpot]

Turn: (t755) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks

River: (t755) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif
Hero checks, UTG+2 is all in (470), Hero??

So you call his all in on the river?

[junkmail3]

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If I'm going to call an all in from him anyways, the only reason to check would be to induce a bluff from a worse hand or get a free showdown. Betting drives out flush or straight draws. Which is more important?



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River: (t755) BLANK
Hero checks, UTG+2 is all in (470), Hero??

So you call his all in on the river?

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Isn't that why you checked the turn?

[splashpot]

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If I'm going to call an all in from him anyways, the only reason to check would be to induce a bluff from a worse hand or get a free showdown. Betting drives out flush or straight draws. Which is more important?



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River: (t755) BLANK
Hero checks, UTG+2 is all in (470), Hero??

So you call his all in on the river?

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Isn't that why you checked the turn?

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Folding is still possible.

[junkmail3]

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If I'm going to call an all in from him anyways, the only reason to check would be to induce a bluff from a worse hand or get a free showdown. Betting drives out flush or straight draws. Which is more important?



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River: (t755) BLANK
Hero checks, UTG+2 is all in (470), Hero??

So you call his all in on the river?

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Isn't that why you checked the turn?

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Folding is still possible.

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Then why check the turn to induce a bluff?

[splashpot]

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If I'm going to call an all in from him anyways, the only reason to check would be to induce a bluff from a worse hand or get a free showdown. Betting drives out flush or straight draws. Which is more important?



[/ QUOTE ]

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River: (t755) BLANK
Hero checks, UTG+2 is all in (470), Hero??

So you call his all in on the river?

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Isn't that why you checked the turn?

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Folding is still possible.

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Then why check the turn to induce a bluff?

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What? I still don't know if checking the turn is correct. Your options on the turn are, check(intending to fold if he bets), check(intending to call if he bets), or bet.

[junkmail3]

In that case, I think his check behind on the turn is weak. So, I don't think he has a Q or a straight. I'd call here.

[Scuba Chuck]

I think you should start thinking about the type of hands villain could have preflop, then start to narrow that hand range down postflop to the type of hands that can make a call here.

I think that your hand range includes hands like AK, KJ, and KT. Besides all the obvious Qx hands, I also think a hand like KT and KJ are certainly calling this flop bet. What's really challenging is the turn c/c. I would think someone who has a lone Q is gonna feel a little uncertain about a straight draw, so your villain either has a boat, or a hand that you probably have a better kicker for (or perhaps a rare chance that he has TT.)

After you check the turn, and check the river, you certainly open it up for villain to make this move with more hands than just Qx.

[tigerite]

I'd call the river here.

[durron597]

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After you check the turn, and check the river, you certainly open it up for villain to make this move with more hands than just Qx.

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You've basically said "OMG IM WEAK BLUFF ME" about as loud as you can by the river. I think it's a mandatory call.

[tigerite]

I can't see what other line you can take on the turn. If you bet out, he's gonna push with a wide range of hands, and folding can be a terrible mistake against many of his holdings. So the only way to really get the money in best here whether WA or WB is to check and call the river, I think.

It's an interesting discussion, however. I'm not even sure if betting the flop is wise..

[pineapple888]

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Check. Hopefully he checks behind, if not, well, you're getting your stack in.


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Check/fold. What exactly are you beating here that called a raise preflop and called a bet on the flop?

[durron597]

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I can't see what other line you can take on the turn. If you bet out, he's gonna push with a wide range of hands, and folding can be a terrible mistake against many of his holdings. So the only way to really get the money in best here whether WA or WB is to check and call the river, I think.

It's an interesting discussion, however. I'm not even sure if betting the flop is wise..

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say checking both streets was wrong, we're WAWB as you said unless the guy's got some weird hand like JT so calling down is really the best way to go.

[tigerite]

Sorry it was meant as a reply to splashpot, as he alluded to a different line on the turn.

If he bets the turn pineapple, you're right, it may be a check/fold. I was rushing the reply at the time.

[Scuba Chuck]

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Check/fold. What exactly are you beating here that called a raise preflop and called a bet on the flop?

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You're beating KJ, KT, TT. You're tied with AK. I agree that this is a WA/WB situation. And checking on the river is the only good/profitable move.