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Ivanapolis
11-29-2005, 05:50 AM
Paradise Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

BB has 35 VPIP, 12 PFR and 7,5 check-raise out of 43 games.
How do you play on the river?

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
2 folds, Hero raises, 5 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

River: (8.25 BB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero ?

11-29-2005, 08:59 AM
Some reads regarding villain's aggression would be helpful. I'm bet/calling the river v. an aggressive villain, capable of raising top pair on the river or bluffing a scare card. While I'd likely bet/fold v. a passive villain.

Betting is essential in my opinion.

Ivanapolis
11-29-2005, 10:35 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Some reads regarding villain's aggression would be helpful. I'm bet/calling the river v. an aggressive villain, capable of raising top pair on the river or bluffing a scare card. While I'd likely bet/fold v. a passive villain.

Betting is essential in my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Addition:
I am a little bit astonished, cause villian has: aggression factor: flop 1.00, turn 1.67, river: 0.00 - but total 2.00 (out of 43 games) - is the extremly high check-raise factor affecting the total aggression factor?!

MJL
11-29-2005, 11:15 AM
What would cause BB to check raise the flop?
1. Thinks you have AK,AQ and wants to push you off/bet for value.
2. Flush or straight draw and wants to get sneaky(not likely).
3. Hit 2pair.

The lead on the turn says he isn't worried about an overpair. Either he doesn't believe you have one or your beat.His check on the river could be he is worried about the flush. Without more reads I would check.

11-29-2005, 12:52 PM
Wow, I just check here. What does villain have that plays this way and calls me down when beat. AJ definitely, what else? it appears he may be on a draw with the raise on the flop and slow down on the turn and check of the river. Either he hit his flush or missed his straight. I don't think my hand is good often enough, to warrant a bet into a known check raiser when that card hits the board. I have a hand I can show down. Let's show it down.

Jake (The Snake)
11-29-2005, 01:01 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Wow, I just check here. What does villain have that plays this way and calls me down when beat. AJ definitely, what else?

[/ QUOTE ]

KJ, JT, J9, J8, J7, etc, a pocket pair, a draw that hit a queen, some random weird stuff

11-29-2005, 01:07 PM
The villain will likely call close to any two in the BB, and he will checkraise that flop with any pair/any draw/sometimes total air. When he bets the turn and you raise and he calls we now know the villain is not bluffing so his range is now any pair/any draw. I hope you can see that even with this bad river card you are just too likely to be ahead here not to bet. I would not even qualify this as a thin value bet, IMO this is a standard value bet. If I'm checkraised I am never folding to this type of player, I would just call.

joeski19
11-29-2005, 01:12 PM
Anyone 3-bet the flop C/R ?

11-29-2005, 01:17 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone 3-bet the flop C/R ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, A lot of people do, I like playing with them.

Edit: I misread, thought you asked if anyone 3-bet the river C/R. I usually 3bet this flop.

11-29-2005, 01:27 PM
What percentage of the time does my hand need to be good here to make a bet. Doesn't SSHE advocate 55%

LLL

TheHip41
11-29-2005, 01:34 PM
[ QUOTE ]
What percentage of the time does my hand need to be good here to make a bet. Doesn't SSHE advocate 55%

LLL

[/ QUOTE ]

He's going to show J-trash alot here. Easy bet/call

11-29-2005, 01:45 PM
[ QUOTE ]

Turn: (4.25 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

A player like this will 3-bet the turn with two pair or better almost all of the time. Unless he has JQ you've got him beat and have to bet the river here.

11-29-2005, 02:09 PM
I agree 100% with Westley878. This type of player would not have just called you on the turn unless he was bluffing or semi-bluffing. He may have caught his flush draw, but you MUST still bet this river for value.

Ivanapolis
11-29-2005, 07:13 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The villain will likely call close to any two in the BB, and he will checkraise that flop with any pair/any draw/sometimes total air. When he bets the turn and you raise and he calls we now know the villain is not bluffing so his range is now any pair/any draw. I hope you can see that even with this bad river card you are just too likely to be ahead here not to bet. I would not even qualify this as a thin value bet, IMO this is a standard value bet. If I'm checkraised I am never folding to this type of player, I would just call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you all for the votes and the replies!!! I just played it the way that (by now) the vast majority -75%- would have played it. I bet-called. I strongly considered checking it down, cause the Qs was so ugly and I had the "1 to win - 2 too lose problem", but I thought, I cannot check down these aces heads up. Villian had Ks8s. Thank you for confirming me, that it was correct anyway. I also think that bet-folding is no option in this limit, against this opponent and with more than 10 BB in the pot HU.