First session of 40/80 at commerce

[hobbsmann]

I just got moved to a main game and won a large pot in a 4 way capped preflop pot where the villain in the following hand had 3-bet my EP opening raise. Other than the felling that the table is good I know nothing of the players as I've only played one orbit.

villain limps UTG, folds to me, I raise K/images/graemlins/spade.gifQ/images/graemlins/spade.gif in the HJ, pissy old woman cold calls on the button, BB calls, villain calls.

Flop (8.5 sbs) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gifT/images/graemlins/heart.gifx
checked to me I bet, woman folds, bb folds, villain calls.

Turn, non heart J
villain donks, I raise, villain calls.

River 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif
villain checks, I check.

value bet? Turn raise good?

[bobdibble]

Value bet the river.

It is my belief that those kind of turn donk bets are typically a made hand that wants to avoid giving you a free card. If this is the case here, that means he doesn't have a flush draw so the river really shouldn't have changed anything.

[W. Deranged]

Hobbs,

The turn donk could be a ton of things. It could be a legit hand that improved. It could be a marginal hand avoiding a free card. It could be a monster that got afraid of the three-straight board. It could be a draw. Who knows. I think you are certainly ahead often enough to raise, though, particularly with your straight redraws increasing your equity. I think the fear of having to pay two much with a draw here is not that big, because, though sometimes the donk is a monster, a huge hand often will check-raise here, and so I think your risk of getting three-bet on this turn is really not that high.

I think you should value bet the river. Once your turn raise gets called and you get checked to on the river, I think you are probably ahead often enough to bet. Basically, the turn only helped flush draws, but they were around on the flop anyway, and might have gotten aggressive there. You can fold to a check-raise.

I thougth you played the hand fine on every street.
PREFLOP: standard
FLOP: standard
TURN: I think its very close between raising and just calling down. Against a passive opponent I would raise the turn and check the river unless I improve. Against a more aggressive opponent I would call down since I dont want to pay 3 bets on the turn if I am 2nd best. To me as long as you make sure that 2 big bets go into the pot on the turn and river you played the hand fine and you accomplished this objective right away by raising the turn.
RIVER: I would check the river also, since anytime you raise the turn on a QJT board when you were the preflop raiser, There will be many hands better than yours that will slow down, hands like JT,QJ,QT, will almost never 3 bet you on this board, and these 3 hand are the most likely hands for the villain. So I would check this river unimproved and expect to lose.

[hobbsmann]

[ QUOTE ]
There will be many hands better than yours that will slow down, hands like JT,QJ,QT, will almost never 3 bet you on this board, and these 3 hand are the most likely hands for the villain.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is what I was thinking about during the hand and is the main reason I checked the river. The fact that AK makes the nut straight on this turn is a major factor and will in my mind keep most players from 3-betting the two pair hands listed above. At the time of the turn raise my thinking was that it was a part free showdown, part value raise but was undecided on which one should be weighted more. The 3rd heart on the river wasn't really the deciding factor in me checking river (the turn J was a worse card IMO), but it did swing things slightly over to a check.

[Michael Emery]

Seems kinda odd that he'd donk bet the turn with a four-flush instead of getting aggressive on the flop instead. The flush card really wouldnt concern me all that much. All I would be thinking on the river is "was I behind to two pair on the turn". Its possible, but I think its more likely you're still ahead enough to bet for value here. Bet.

Mike Emery

[flopmonster]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There will be many hands better than yours that will slow down, hands like JT,QJ,QT, will almost never 3 bet you on this board, and these 3 hand are the most likely hands for the villain.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is what I was thinking about during the hand and is the main reason I checked the river. The fact that AK makes the nut straight on this turn is a major factor and will in my mind keep most players from 3-betting the two pair hands listed above. At the time of the turn raise my thinking was that it was a part free showdown, part value raise but was undecided on which one should be weighted more. The 3rd heart on the river wasn't really the deciding factor in me checking river (the turn J was a worse card IMO), but it did swing things slightly over to a check.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you played it as good as you could have and this proves why

[mike l.]

you checked??

a game is only as good you as you are at taking advantage of it.