Payton/Malone to Lakers?

[IrishHand]

LA papers and sports shows have been going non-stop for the past two days over the potential free agent windfall the Lakers might be getting. (See this link to NBA free agent sources (http://www.insidehoops.com/nba_rumors.shtml))Evidently, Malone may have told the Lakers that he's willing to sign for the veteran minimum ($1.5 million in his case) so that they can use their exemption ($4.9 million) to sign a very interested Gary Payton to a 4- or 5-year deal. To a certain extent, I can understand the desire behind Malone's alleged position - he's made insane amount of money in Utah the past few years ($19 million last year), so the difference between $1.5M and the $4.9M that another team will offer him isn't as significant as the auto-championship he likely envisions with an O'Neal/Malone/who cares/Bryant/Payton lineup in the Gold and Purple next year. The same applies to a lesser extent to Payton, who would be turning down something like $7M per from the Bucks to make his late-career championship drive. Some thoughts...

(1) How likely are the two of them to do this? I figure that if Malone is actually willing to sign for the minumum and has informed Payton of this, I'd say it's highly likely.

(2) More importantly, would this move mean a return to championship form for the Lakers? Being a lifelong Lakers fan, this is the more significant concern for me. Having All-Stars all over a team isn't necessarily a good thing - Portland's been proving that for the past 4 or 5 years. Chemistry is a huge deal in basketball, where only 7-8 players per team really influence the outcome of the game. Are Malone and Payton interested in their scoring averages cut in half from their current levels of 18-22ppg, because I have a high level of confidence that neither Kobe nor Shaq will give up many shots. Overall, would the Lakers be better off signing a PJ Brown or Juwan Howard, since they both have a history of accepting less glamourous roles, thereby making their teams better?

[andyfox]

Yeah, they're going to get Larry Bird and Oscar Robertson too.

OK, a semi-serious joke about the advanced ages, basketball speaking, of Malone and Payton. Malone wants 1) to win a championship; and 2) to be the all-time scoring leader. If 2 is more important than 1, one would think he'd stay in Utah. If 1 is more important than 2, a move to L.A. makes sense. Malone may have some ego issues, but he's missed 10 games in 18 years and has averaged 20 points a game of more for 17 consecutive years. Payton usually eats Kobe alive when they play and his ego trumps Malone's, but Jackson has now had the experience of dealing with MJ/Pippen and Shaq/Kobie, so he should be able to handle these guys.

[IrishHand]

A number of reports today that Payton has agreed to sign a long-term deal with the Lakers (starting this coming year at their mid-level exception around $4.9M).

As Andy noted, I have no fear that Phil will be able to work his magic - I'm just concerned that they'll end up being too much star, not enough team. Of course, I think the same thing about the Kings and they've done reasonably well the past two years. So...does Payton come to the Lakers knowing he's the 3rd wheel? Also, does it upset Kobe that his days of stringing together 40-point games are probably over? Even if Shaq misses a few games, I can't see him hoisting up to 47 shots with Payton handling a significant chunk of the PG responsibilities.

On the more optimistic side, the Lakers now have the best trio in the NBA - at least on paper. (They already had the best duo, which was good enough for 3 of the past 4 years.) Add Malone to the mix and the Lakers will have to be everyone's preseason favorites no matter who the Spurs sign. This is shaping up to be an interesting off-season.

[John Ho]

Payton signed. No one is beating the Lakers next year unless Kobe is in jail or Shaq is fat again.

[Bill Murphy]

It all comes down to Shaq. If he's healthy, they win, if not, Malone will find a way to choke, like he always does.

Even if Shaq is healthy Malone might screw it up. Remember that All-Star game where Malone knocked Magic's game-winner at the buzzer away, trying to dunk it in and be the hero himself?

I'm from Utah and Malone has never lifted his game in the post-season, EVER. Got to give him his due for showing up every night, tho. Prolly the most consistent player ever.

Very thin-skinned. The Utah media has babied him like you wouldn't believe. Payton says a lot of stupid things to the media too. They've been whales in wading pools for a long, long time. Wonder how both'll deal w/the whole Laker scene. Hard to imagine a bumpkin like Malone chillin' w/Jacky & Dyan.

IMO, they're both at a stage where they'll respect Phil and do what he says. Shaq just wants to win. Don't know what Kobe'll think, assuming he won't be in jail next season.

Four HOF'ers, but four MONSTER egos. One ball. If the Spurs get Jason Kidd....

And from Utah, FVCK Malone. Always was a whiny choking b!tch. At least Stockton kept his mouth shut. Some of Malone's local interviews over the years would have to be read/heard to be believed. But again, at least he had a work ethic. He'd be right there w/Kemp & Coleman otherwise.

Hopefully w/the cap room the Jazz can get Miller(likely) & Brand(far less likely, but possible).

[andyfox]

If Malone wants to win a championship, he can still break the scoring record if he averages 12 points a game over the next two years. With Shaq drawing the lion's share of attention, one would think Malone could concentrate on rebounding and still average 15-18 PPG even as the 4th option in the offense.

The other option for Malone would be San Antonio where he could fill David Robinson's shoes and would be a more important cog in the offense, especially with Jason Kidd, if he jumps ship, playing John Stockton.

[andyfox]

"It all comes down to Shaq. If he's healthy, they win, if not, Malone will find a way to choke, like he always does."

So Shaq should get the credit if they win, but Malone the blame if they lose? Malone was the only guy Utah could lean on to score when they needed a basket forever. I mean, Ostertag is an absolute stiff. So Malone played 1384 out of 1394 games in 17 years and carried his team every game and he's a choker. I don't buy it.

[Bill Murphy]

Well, compared to Magic, MJ, Bird, Moses, Erving, McHale, Worthy, Hakeem, Zeke, Kareem, etc, he's a choker. Malone blathers endlessly about how he belongs in that group but its not even close.

You'd have to have lived here his whole career and seen & read all the local coverage to really understand. Some of his comments over the years are beyond mind-boggling. Almost disturbing in the delusion & ego that they indicate.

He's certainly a great, great player; prolly the greatest to never win a ring. And, to be fair, Layden was a joke as a game coach, and Hornacek was the only decent teammate he & Stockton ever had. If Horny'd been here his whole career the Jazz prolly get a ring or two despite themselves. And replace Ostertag w/a prime, healthy Eaton(no O, amazing D, never dogged, got in MJ's dome) and who knows what happens in the two Bulls series.

Take Malone off the Jazz, MJ off the Bulls, Hakeem off the Rockets. Jazz sweep both teams, easy every time, instead of going 1 for 6 or whatever.

[Clarkmeister]

I think Payton is a lethally perfect fit. I think Malone is not.

They had a good draft IMO, as I think that both Walton and Cook have solid role playing careers in front of them. Couple them at the 4 with their current lineup Madsen/Walker rotation and I think they don't need Malone and his suspect D. I think Pippen would be a far better pickup at the 3, and he would also likely come for the minimum. When healthy he was very very good last year. A healthy lineup of Payton, Pippen, Bryant, Shaq and (pick random scrub) might very well be the best defensive 5 of all time.

[IrishHand]

You raise some good points. It seems as though the media is pointing to Malone to be the solution for the PF "problem" the Lakers have apparently had for the past 4 years. However, if you look at his past 3-4 years, his "PF" numbers have been diminishing drastically - at least those that should be of interest to the Lakers. His rebounds have tailed off and his shooting percentage has done likewise. He's still gotten a lot of points because - let's be serious - who else was going to shoot in Utah? That won't be the case in LA. Realistically - how different will his production be as the 4th option than, say, a Horace Grant of a couple years back (8ppg, 7rpg)? Someone above said he could average 15+ as the 4th option. Not in this lifeltime. Unless Payton and Kobe decide that they're happy with 18 and 12 respectively, I'd say Malone will be VERY fortunate to break double-digits. He simply won't ever be called on to create his own shot, since others already on the team do that so much better. Who would you rather have taking the 16" jump shot - Malone, Bryant or Payton? Not a tough call.

So saying, I'm not sure that Pippen is a good fit either. He's also old, but he also brings a history of excessive aquaintance with the DL. I realize he had some solid streaks in Portland the past couple years, but overall - his numbers have been pathetic for a "top 50 in NBA history". However, you're not going to get a great player for that $1.5M. Given that, I'd agree that Pippen would be a better fit than Malone. To be honest, I'm still debating whether a 40-year-old Malone is a better fit than Robert Horry - especially as a 4th/5th option on offense. The Payton signing really does change the whole complexion of any further additions.

[andyfox]

Walker's gone, I think.

I agree with your Pippen thinking. And Pippen will be happy when they win and he scores four points and gets eleven rebounds and six assists.

[andyfox]

I'm still not convinced "choker" is correct, but I do agree he isn't a difference-maker like the group you list. I also realize that one knows what a player is made of only when one lives in the city that player plays in and sees him day in and day out and reads what he has to say on a daily basis. So your judgment that Karl is a bit short in both the brainage and humility departments is probably on the mark.