Restealing.

[thabadguy]

This is an aspect of the game where i would like to get better. I know a lotta ppl think that defending blinds in NL is not a big deal, but i think it is.
For me reraising against a button or CO raise normally requires me to have....2 cards, unless the LP raisers havent done it very often.
I would like to know what kinda hands ppl resteal or defend their blinds with against habitual stealers, i think i do it more aggressively than is optimal.

[daniel1222]

I think the best idea is to resteal from any position - don't make it about defending blinds all the time, with the obvious care that the position and tendencies of the original raiser necessitate. Also, limp-reraising w. hands other than AA or KK can be included in this strategy.

I'm far from an expert, bash away everyone.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Re-stealing out of position (like in the blinds or by limp/re-raising in EP) does not seem like a very profitable strategy to me against good opponents. Basically he is saying "I want to play a big pot in position" by raising and you are saying "Fine, let's play a really big pot when you have position". Unless the guy has shown that he will fold too often pre- or post-flop, in which case fine run him over, it just seems like a bad idea. Good players will obviously catch on to the fact that you don't always have premium hands in these spots and they will let you hang yourself since your only way to win the hand will be to get them to fold. It's just ugly playing 67o out of position against a preflop raiser when you completely miss the flop. Seems like you are just bloating the pot for them to win it postflop since they are playing with position and most likely the best hand, too.

I'd rather counteract the fact that people 'steal' my blinds by attacking other people when I have position. That way I put THEM in the squeeze mentioned above.

[AZK]

This is my new obsession, mostly only in live games, where you get ideal conditions: bad players, lots of limpers/dead money. I've started doing this a lot more out of the blinds/button etc. I really don't pick hands per se, as imo this is a bluff, but I feel better doing it with pairs, Ax, two big cards. There is a lot of dead money to be had. Especially in straddled pots.

[BobboFitos]

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Seems like you are just bloating the pot for them to win it postflop since they are playing with position and most likely the best hand, too.


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Not true at all. You need to consider how often they fold; they're not going to call a big reraise even with position just hoping to call a big flop bet to take it away. Very risky, and alot of players dont have the balls for that.

Think of the math too; if someone raises pot, (35) sb folds, there is 50 out there. if you make it, say, 150, (bigger then pot) if he folds 75% you break even on this alone. Vs a perpetual blind stealer, attempt to steal blinds pretty high, they will fold often.

Also, keep in mind sometimes you show down best hand or win it on the flop, but we're focusing on pf.

[dtbog]

[ QUOTE ]
This is an aspect of the game where i would like to get better. I know a lotta ppl think that defending blinds in NL is not a big deal, but i think it is.
For me reraising against a button or CO raise normally requires me to have....2 cards, unless the LP raisers havent done it very often.
I would like to know what kinda hands ppl resteal or defend their blinds with against habitual stealers, i think i do it more aggressively than is optimal.

[/ QUOTE ]

When you resteal like this with any 2 cards, how does the hand play out when villain calls on the button and you miss the flop?

[thabadguy]

Right, i dont like reraising with a small pp against an aggressive player..dont wanna get 3bet with that hand, if i flop a set and know hes gonna keep firing.....

[dtbog]

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Right, i dont like reraising with a small pp against an aggressive player..dont wanna get 3bet with that hand, if i flop a set and know hes gonna keep firing.....

[/ QUOTE ]

If he's so aggressive, won't you be moved off of most of your resteals anyway unless you nail the flop?

[IHateCats]

Personally I tend not to think of it as defending the blinds per se as attacking an opponent who is overplaying his cards too often, the $ in the pot is somewhat irrelevant because any substantial reraise on your part will probably put you over 10x the size of the bb for your bet. That said, I tend to make my initial 2 or 3 reraises of an opponent with basically any 2 and then tighten up to pairs over 8 or 9, AX & the bigger suited connects, 89, 910, etc so that I'll have a bit more chance of hitting something if I'm called and see a flop. Usually the pyschology of serial blind thieves tends to run in reverse of this trend, they assume the first few reraises were legit and now, liking the taste of it, I'm stealing.

[thabadguy]

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Right, i dont like reraising with a small pp against an aggressive player..dont wanna get 3bet with that hand, if i flop a set and know hes gonna keep firing.....

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If he's so aggressive, won't you be moved off of most of your resteals anyway unless you nail the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]
Not necessarily..if he is extremely aggressive ill often open push flop with Ace high if i reraised pf, or check raise push with such if i just called his raise pf.
I think the range of resteals depends on the player against who does it.
For example, if he will raise on the button but will fold to a reraise continuously..ill never stop, if he will occasionally reraise ill do it with hands i dont necessarily wanna see a flop with, but can play post flop such as 45o, A7 etc.
If he will reraise with anything all the time...ill raise with any pp, any decent ace and move in if he raises...

[BIgMc]

I don't like to do it. It encourages bad play, and hard decisions. If you're going to do it, you better know he's trying to steal. So, only in live games. On-line, it's very risky.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is an aspect of the game where i would like to get better. I know a lotta ppl think that defending blinds in NL is not a big deal, but i think it is.
For me reraising against a button or CO raise normally requires me to have....2 cards, unless the LP raisers havent done it very often.
I would like to know what kinda hands ppl resteal or defend their blinds with against habitual stealers, i think i do it more aggressively than is optimal.

[/ QUOTE ]

When you resteal like this with any 2 cards, how does the hand play out when villain calls on the button and you miss the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

You lead out and hope to take it down. Its just as likley to have missed him.

[TheWorstPlayer]

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Seems like you are just bloating the pot for them to win it postflop since they are playing with position and most likely the best hand, too.


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Not true at all. You need to consider how often they fold; they're not going to call a big reraise even with position just hoping to call a big flop bet to take it away. Very risky, and alot of players dont have the balls for that.

Think of the math too; if someone raises pot, (35) sb folds, there is 50 out there. if you make it, say, 150, (bigger then pot) if he folds 75% you break even on this alone. Vs a perpetual blind stealer, attempt to steal blinds pretty high, they will fold often.

Also, keep in mind sometimes you show down best hand or win it on the flop, but we're focusing on pf.

[/ QUOTE ]
I completely agree with this. Except for the part where you quoted me and then said "Not true at all." But this analysis is just saying "If guys fold too much, then you can make money by betting." This is all obvious. I meant to imply all this when I said "If they fold too much, fine run them over." But my comment was geared towards playing against good players who won't fold too much and who will call re-raises loosely since they will have position and know that you are re-raising lightly.

[gomberg]

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I meant to imply all this when I said "If they fold too much, fine run them over." But my comment was geared towards playing against good players who won't fold too much and who will call re-raises loosely since they will have position and know that you are re-raising lightly.

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If you do this with the right stack sizes OOP, then if they call preflop, the continuation bet will in effect be for their whole stack although it may only be a smallish portion of yours. It really puts opponents in a tough, tough spot if they don't have AA or KK.

For example, in a 5-10 game if you have 1500, lets say good MP player opens for $35, button calls, sb folds, you decide to squeeze w/ random junk. If you overbet the pot OOP usually, lets say you raise it up to $150. Usually this will work, but if good player calls and others fold, you can bet $300 or so and it's really for opponent's stack, so the bet has a lot of leverage making the bluff work unless against a monster - and you should have a decently tight reraising image for this play as well.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Nice. I think stack sizes play a very important role here. What you outline is a really nice play.

[creedofhubris]

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Nice. I think stack sizes play a very important role here. What you outline is a really nice play.

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That's why this works fine online too. When you reraise and bet flop, that's threatening a 100bb stack. That's probably 40% of his stack right there.

But you need to do it against people who raise light, because something like QQ or AK can be a through ticket for 100bbs.