I'm a nut peddler

[twang]

After reading up on the subject it seems like when everything else being equal, NL is slightly more profitable (extreme multitabling not factored in) and has less variance than limit. Sounds good so I thought I'd give it a chance and I've been experimenting with NL for some weeks now.

But dear God! The boredom! I remember reading a post where someone described online NL something like "fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, limp, fold, fold, call, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, raise, win a tiny pot, fold, fold, fold, all-in, fold, fold" and I'm afraid I have to agree. It's dull and although I have far from a valid sample size, I seriously doubt that I am anywhere near 8-10 ptbb/100. Maybe something like 3-4ptbb.

You guys who love NL, how do you A) keep sane and B) get that winrate? Do you limp/cold call any pair anywhere? Do you sneak in/cold call suited connectors everywhere? Open raise weak broadways?

Thoughts and ideas would be appreciated.

I Listen to alot of cds, and download the latest concert off archieve, read blogs, 2+2, and i get creative raising with BS, overbetting, trying to move people off hands and all that jazz

i have also started playing low limit 7card stud and omaha, because its generally more fun for me, just not as finacially rewarding

[nyc999]

I haven't played NL for long, but to keep sane I multi-table. I've played 20K hands at limit and found it to be more boring.

Your other questions are very table dependent. I will open-raise weak broadways and sometimes suited connectors/weak aces/etc. with position and/or at a tight table.

How many hands have you played at NL, and how many tables at a time?

[Solami17]

Funny, everyone I know who plays NL absolutely hates limit poker. Such is the case because it is harder to semi-bluff/bluff at large pots. Obviously, these guys are action buffs so I cannot complain...they are all donks, what can I say?

[pho75]

If you are bored while playing NL then you probably aren't paying close enough attention. There is so much information that is critical to your EV at NL. Playing style and betting patters are paramount.

When you are not in a hand follow the action and try to put each player on a range of hands. While doing this, start building a mental profile of each players style of play. Also, try to find patters in their bets and raises and what positions they play different hands.

After a while you should start to formulate a seperate strategy for playing against each player both in postion and out.

As soon as you see your hole cards your first thought should be "how am I going to make money with this hand, in this postion, with these specific players?" not "I have AK, I should raise 3xbb". You should be thinking "in the position I'm in, what type of flops do I want? What type of flops don't I want? And what will I do?"

This is just the tip of the mental iceberg that is NL. I'm not kidding, there is far, far, far more going on. Next to chess, NLHE is the most complex and mentally challenging game I've ever played.

[twang]

[ QUOTE ]
How many hands have you played at NL, and how many tables at a time?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure... an estimated guess is 6000 hands and I usually play 2 tables.

I don't know... I just find it hard to deal with the fact that the unlimited betting reduces the game (IMHO) to fit-or-fold and often even beyond fit-or fold: flopping the nut flush draw and being priced off the draw, flopping TPTK and facing a huge overbet, things like that. Being a limit player, I play the odds (no, I don't play the player), but it seems like doing so makes me a nut-peddling bore. Which brings the money against uber-donks, but not against anyone remotely competent. On the other hand, I really can't see how neglecting the odds and wing it on "feel" and a dim online read could be profitable in the long run.

I guess I have to get out of the limit kiddie pool and make some moves, but I honestly don't know where to start.

[twang]

Good post, thanks.

[pmuir10]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you limp/cold call any pair anywhere?

[/ QUOTE ]

uhhhh.. yeah

[PinkSteel]

[ QUOTE ]
"fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, limp, fold, fold, call, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, raise, win a tiny pot, fold, fold, fold, all-in, fold, fold"

[/ QUOTE ]

Tighten up, dude. You're spewing here. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ludo72]

If you're playing 6-max you should experiment with playing all kinds of crap from the button and CO. Hands like 68s, Q9s or even T9o are raisable hands if you can get the pot heads-up with position and your post-flop skills exceed your opponents. You get into a lot of marginal situations where you have to trust your reads which is really what NL is all about. My stats for 6-max are 24/15 and I hardly ever get bored.

[ QUOTE ]
If you are bored while playing NL then you probably aren't paying close enough attention. There is so much information that is critical to your EV at NL. Playing style and betting patters are paramount.

Next to chess, NLHE is the most complex and mentally challenging game I've ever played.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am slowly coming to realise just how true this is.

to date I hae multi-tabled twice - both times mygame went to pieces - there is a LOT going on at NL and I find I need to keep track of most of it or I might as well just hand all my chips to the dealer and walk away..

[Karak567]

I 3-4 table NL 200 6max and with my style of play (kinda LAG), I'm never bored.

[beavens]

i 2 table 25NL 6max and i've yet to get bored. yeah there is a decent amount of folding, but i like to pay attention to the action when i'm not in a hand because i think it helps my game. it definitely helps to see how others at the table are playing, and when you tie what youve observed with any PT/PAHUD info you've got, it makes for a powerful weapon.

[yvesaint]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you limp/cold call any pair anywhere?

[/ QUOTE ]

uhhhh.. yeah

[/ QUOTE ]

no i raise/call /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I can't play full ring online. I would be bored to tears. I play 6max and try to raise as much as possible. It keeps things interesting.

[FlyingStart]

I like both games. I likeNo limit because when the action does happen it is much bigger and often with more creativity, you also have much room to manouver in versus bad opponents. It is true that you must fold alot, but not so much in 6 max. There you can play pretty aggressive. I raise with (of course depending on position, opponents and stacksizes) facecards, suited aces, SCs and PPs. If you play full ring you can always 6table so it doesn't get too boring.

The reason I like limit is because there is more action in general, and if I feel like raising and betting like a madman I sometimes sit down at the limit tables. This also becomes boring after a while tho.. because the activity is much more monkey-like, unless you are playing HU

[Morrek]

Everytime I try limit it just feels like I can't make real bets, I just "wiff" my bets all the time, and everyone calls... I really don't see the fun in that.
In NL however I can make "real" bets and muscle people out, that's alot more fun and requires practise to know when and how to do this. But hey I haven't tried many hands of limit so I dunno what's so fascinating about it

[ QUOTE ]
In NL however I can make "real" bets and muscle people out, that's alot more fun and requires practise to know when and how to do this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I enjoy limit at the B&M casino (thats all we have), and NL online. Had my fill of limit early when the 1st five times with AA, they got cracked. Was just so pissed that you cant get people out of a hand online. In the B&M, seems people respect a 2 or 3 bet, or a cap. Online, its almost welcomed.

I realize 5 times with AA doesnt mean squat, but it was still frustrating. Anytime my aces crack in NL, I just look at my PT stats and see the 84% win rate and the green profit line and feel a bit better.