man...weird hands today 200NL

[pokerjoker]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

CO ($200)
Button ($183)
Hero ($243.50)
BB ($318.30)
UTG ($96)
UTG+1 ($208.40)
UTG+2 ($281)
MP1 ($349.15)
MP2 ($607.94)
MP3 ($200)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif. CO posts a blind of $2. Hero posts a blind of $1. MP3 posts a blind of $3.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to $4</font>, MP2 calls $4, MP3 (poster) calls $2, CO (poster) calls $2, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero (poster) calls $3, BB calls $2.

Flop: ($25) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $15</font>, BB calls $15, MP1 calls $15, MP2 folds, MP3 calls $15, CO folds.

Turn: ($85) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks.

River: ($85) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $50

[JustToast]

I think betting the turn works. Half-pot sound about right?

Looks like a great table.

[ajmargarine]

I'd give alot of consideration to c/r'ing that flop. Current table dynamics and read would play a big part in that decision however.

As played, I'm leading that turn. Two pair, nut flush draw. That's an awful strong hand to be checking. But, being it checked thru, I'm c/c'ing on the river. I don't want to lead and get raised. And I'd rather have weaker hands bet it on the end with me likely closing the action. (or stronger hands only having one chance to put money in the middle).

[CaptainNoBeard]

hm, interesting hand. AJ, i don't c/r that flop because it's not threatening enough. i think you'd have a tough time getting an opponent to lay down AK, KQ, or even KJ on that board.

[trevor]

I bet $60 on the turn because MP3 posted blind, MP1 was the min-raiser and the BB tagged along. So far they've told you they don't have much. I think you lose a lot of value by checking the turn. I don't know what you are trying to accomplish here. I think I fall into the "man it would suck if I get raised here" theory when holding a big draw on the turn but wtf you do have two pair if you didn't notice.

[orange]

I like leading this flop and calling most raises (pushing also works). c/r is messy- how do you play a blank turn? You have a sexy draw and are OOP after showing alot of strength. leading&gt;c/c&gt;c/r IMO.

Leading the turn is best IMO. 2 pair+NFD is very very strong. I see no reason to not value bet this river either.

[pokerjoker]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd give alot of consideration to c/r'ing that flop. Current table dynamics and read would play a big part in that decision however.

As played, I'm leading that turn. Two pair, nut flush draw. That's an awful strong hand to be checking. But, being it checked thru, I'm c/c'ing on the river. I don't want to lead and get raised. And I'd rather have weaker hands bet it on the end with me likely closing the action. (or stronger hands only having one chance to put money in the middle).

[/ QUOTE ]

Thx for the advice, The reason I checked the turn is that I can't think of any worse hand (besides maybe a lower flush) that calls me here. Can you think of any?

[Simplistic]

bet the turn, gotta build those pots, two pair with NFD? bet it

[ajmargarine]

By c/r'ing you get to see all the strength of your opponents. IMO, it would be difficult for a one pair hand to call you if you c/r. AK maybe. We are the favorite over all one pair hands right now except AK. So getting money in as the favorite when you have alot of info is goot, IMO.

If the turn bricks tho, you need to bet it and that is the disadvantage of c/r'ing. But, if you hit a flush or 3 or A, your hand is well disguised now and you are on the way to doubling up. Also by checking, you can still just c/c depending on the action; and that is why that's what I would do on this flop, just check it, and c/r if that's what my gut said to do.

[orange]

[ QUOTE ]
By c/r'ing you get to see all the strength of your opponents. IMO, it would be difficult for a one pair hand to call you if you c/r. AK maybe. We are the favorite over all one pair hands right now except AK. So getting money in as the favorite when you have alot of info is goot, IMO.

If the turn bricks tho, you need to bet it and that is the disadvantage of c/r'ing. But, if you hit a flush or 3 or A, your hand is well disguised now and you are on the way to doubling up. Also by checking, you can still just c/c depending on the action; and that is why that's what I would do on this flop, just check it, and c/r if that's what my gut said to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that c/r allows us to see the strength of our opponents. Whats the plan if MP bets and LP raises? Whats our plan there? 3-bet? Leading takes care of this problem IMO, because, as you stated, we are ahead of many many holdings, so I can safely 3-bet all-in this flop. leading/3-bet is different then c/r 3-bet IMO.

c/r also shows alot of strength, and it gives us a higher chance of taking down this pot on the flop. But don't we want to build a pot here? I think leading also gives us easier turn play, given the action/card.

Maybe I'm off here, but leading is best IMO. c/c after that, merely because I can go for an overcall and have a lower risk being c/r-ed off my hand.

[pho75]

There are many reasons to make bets other than to get worse hands to call.

- For information
- For value
- To get others to make a mistake
- And most important, so YOU don't make a mistake by giving a free card to beat you.

If you knew one or two of the other hands held middle pairs with hands like 76 or 87 or hands like QJh would you still check?

Even if you bet and only get called by a hand that beats you like 77 you still have many outs.

[rikz]

I think I'd bet a little more on the flop, at least $20. Then I'd continue to represent a hand that is defending against a flush draw by betting half the pot on the turn. I like betting because 2-pair is strong, and (more importantly) I want somebody calling to a lower flush draw to be more likely to think his flush is good if he hits on the river. If we're still playing by the river, I make a value bet on the river for 1/5 pot hoping a Kx or worse two pair makes a call. If someone pushes the river, I'd probably call without a strong read because I wouldn't be able to put someone on a set by the river (call/call on flop/turn with a flush draw and mulit-way pot with a set???). Checking the river to induce a bluff is good if at least one of the villain in the hand has tried river bluffs with missed draws and weak hands in the past. Without a read, I think a small value bet is good and you will get a call from TPWK or a lower 2-pair.

[SpaceAce]

[ QUOTE ]

Thx for the advice, The reason I checked the turn is that I can't think of any worse hand (besides maybe a lower flush) that calls me here. Can you think of any?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you new to the Party Poker $25-$200 no limit games? That's a semi-serious question because you will get called here by any random Ace that managed to see the turn, any flush draw, any TJ (maybe with a heart) that hung around this long, K3s, K7s (hey, it was only a minimum raise pre-flop!), KQ and so on. Don't be silly, bet the turn. If nothing else, make the other flush draw(s) give you some money before they whiff the river.

SpaceAce