Hand reading from the live 2+2 table

[MrWookie47]

This one is from the table Ignignokogoktockoctgotgt and I played together last night. It was the first B&M poker experience for either of us. A good time was had by all. This was the only remotely interesting hand, though. The table was extremely passive. Lots of limping preflop, and very, very little raising post flop. BB in this hand was exceptionally passive. I'm not sure I had seen him raise at all before, maybe once. He was willing to bet in a couple of ill-adivised places before, though. He bet when checked to IP with a low two pair on a four-flush board. It worked, however - he folded a guy (MP3 in this hand) with a straight. He had repeatedly shown that he was willing to play some garbage. MP3 had LRR'd a few times before, and he was willing to donkbet the flop with as little as a pair of twos. His play was pretty erratic.

Muckleshoot 4/8, 9 handed.

Wookie is in the SB with XX. Iggie is on the button with YY.

Folded to MP1 who open limps. MP3 limps. Iggie raises. I 3bet out of the SB. BB calls 2. MP1 and MP3 call. Iggie caps it. I call, and it's called around.

Flop is 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Checked to Iggie who bets, I raise. BB cold calls, MP1 folds, MP3 cold calls, Iggie calls.

Turn is 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (not sure if it was exactly a 4, but it was a low diamond) I bet, BB calls, MP3 folds, Iggie calls.

River is a fourth diamond of which I am again unsure of the value (T? Any help from Iggie?). I bet, BB raises, Iggie thinks for a bit and folds, I think for longer and call.

What hands could I have played well? What hands could Iggie have played well?

[cold_cash]

I'm guessing you both had a decent diamond.

You KK (mayyyybe AA) w/ a /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Iggie QQ w/ a /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[Shillx]

Gonna try the quicky reply. You have KK and he has QQ or JJ or something. You both have diamonds. It looks like he has A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif x crap.

Brad

[Redd]

[ QUOTE ]
Ignignokogoktockoctgotgt

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Unrelated to hand, but great minds... (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=micro&Number=3893665&Sear chpage=1&Main=3892315&Words=igni+Redd&topic=&Searc h=true#Post3893665)

[GTSamIAm]

Iggie has AQs with no diamonds. You have KK and you have the red diamond.

[milesdyson]

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Iggie has AQs with no diamonds. You have KK and you have the red diamond.

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he said what hands could iggie have played well, though.

[GTSamIAm]

I have to admit, I looked at someone else's post after I posted and QQ makes a lot of sense. I think he folded because he didn't have a diamond. I guess he could have since he thought for a while.

[VoraciousReader]

Seems like big pocket pairs for both of you. I don't think Iggie has a diamond. I'd say he has AA/KK/QQ with no diamond, and you are likely holding QQ/KK with a diamond.

You both had overpairs and you both have a /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

I think you had JJ and he had QQ or KK (less likely).

EDIT: I think Iggy can't make an overcall with either of these hands for fear it's going to be two back to him.
You on the other hand. I think you insta-call with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif and definitely K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif against this guy.

I gave you JJ because you had to think and you asked if the river was the T. Otherwise, I could have put you on TT aswell.

[ QUOTE ]
River is a fourth diamond of which I am again unsure of the value (T? Any help from Iggie?).

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I'm probably not the one to ask - I remembered the suit of the 4-flush being clubs.

I'm slightly (slightly!) heartened by the responses here, though.

[btspider]

you probably have KK/images/graemlins/diamond.gif while he had QQ/JJ with a diamond. I don't think he should bet the flop without a pair or flush draw which leaves a pair for his holding. If he had to think before folding on the river, he had to have a diamond.

[MrWookie47]

OK, the results. For the most part, you guys did pretty good. I had a red JJ, and Iggie had QQ with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. BB mucked what he said was a lower diamond, and MHIG. That night, I gave Iggie a pretty hard time for not 3betting that flop, but it seems like a number of people here think that his play was correct with QQ. Do you disagree with me?

[SCfuji]

hey wookie

you have JJ with the J diamonds and ingkot has QQ with the Q of diamonds or the other way around but its probably the first one.

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That night, I gave Iggie a pretty hard time for not 3betting that flop, but it seems like a number of people here think that his play was correct with QQ.

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Like I say, it makes me feel not quite so feeble.

The more I've thought about it, the more I agree with you, though. If I 3-bet that flop the hand plays differently.

[ QUOTE ]
That night, I gave Iggie a pretty hard time for not 3betting that flop, but it seems like a number of people here think that his play was correct with QQ. Do you disagree with me?

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Seems that not 3-betting the flop made the whole thing quite difficult for Iggy, as he wound up playing defensively with the best hand, and folding it on the river. He seemed very quick to conclude that you had AA or KK. Perhaps he figured you for A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and was waiting for a safe turn card to press his advantage, but then why would you c/r with that hand?

So no, I don't disagree with you.

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
OK, the results. For the most part, you guys did pretty good. I had a red JJ, and Iggie had QQ with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. BB mucked what he said was a lower diamond, and MHIG. That night, I gave Iggie a pretty hard time for not 3betting that flop, but it seems like a number of people here think that his play was correct with QQ. Do you disagree with me?

[/ QUOTE ]

I assumed he wanted to raise the field on the turn when a blank drops. Then, given that he picked up a flush draw, he can't fold to a turn 3-bet, so elected to call instead.

Thing was, on the river I would've called Wookie - although I erroneously put him on KK-AA, in my mind there was a good chance he didn't have a diamond.

It was the SB's raise that got to me - there had to be SOME reason he hung in all that way, and I (again erroneously) presumed it was a weak A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif or K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. (It turned out to be low unconnected crap, but with a diamond, making his raise a complete mystery. But he was a veteran.)

If I 3-bet those queens, Wookie goes passive or folds, on the river I only have an SB donkbet to contend with, and I call expecting to lose but with odds on my side. OTOH, if Wookie does have KK or AA, he caps me, and I feel much better about that river fold.

In position, it should have been a 3bet.

Your preflop 3bet defines your hand to normal 2+2 3betting stantards.

Your flop action defines it further.

You wanted to protect your hand with a c/r. Therefore it was vulnerable in some fashion.

AKs diamonds bets out.
AA bets out.
99 definitely bets out.

That leaves KK, QQ, JJ, TT.

Iggy's hand is a favourite. 3bet.

Q: If Iggy puts you on these hands, is it better just to call the flop raise and raise a safe turn card?