Advice for Arafat

Dismantle Hamas and imprison its leaders and members (Hamas is based in Gaza, which was spared during the recent Israeli offensive. Hamas has claimed responsibility for the latest sucide bombing which killed 15 people and promises more).


If you don't do it, Israel will do it for you.

This latest name-calling episode confirms what I believe is one of eLROY's major purposes on 2+2: to be a Troll. To flame. To name-call, denigrate, and abuse.


Congratulations eLROY you win the prize. I hope I get to meet you at Foxwoods or the Mohegan Sun someday.

Gosh M,


I find it so amusing how you care if I call you a dunce. Are you a dunce?


Is what I call you how you figure out whether you are a dunce?


If I say that you are a dunce, do you believe me? Would you believe other things I said?


Or is that you believe I think you are a dunce that bothers you? If so, wouldn't I think it even if I didn't say it?


Or is it that other people will believe me when I say you are a dunce?


All these questions are funny to me, presumably because I cannot empathize at all.


Is there something wrong with me that I don't care if someone calls me a dunce?


Why do different people react differently?


eLROY

eLROY, you call everybody names. Your posts are frequently designed to denigrate. What's wrong with you anyway??? Something is wrong with you--face it.

It is the aspect of your personality which causes you to constantly attack others which is so objectionable. You should consider addressing these real personality--doing so will probably result in better real-life relationships for you, and will cause others to perhaps like you a bit more.


Constantly attacking others is not only immature, it is disgusting. It also shows a remarkable lack of class. If you want to go through life as a classless jerk, be my guest, but don't expect me or the rest of us to listen to your nonsense without telling you like it is.


Your constant put-down posts belie an ego that feels itself in peril. Thankfully, you have someone who cares enough to point all this out to you. Now, if you're only smart enough to listen and think instead of reacting on your first impulse...

Some random guy, in an Internet forum - called "Harley Dude" no less - calls me a "snitch" and a "felon" - and implies that I wear a jacket with patches (yuck!).


And I am supposed to care??


When you say,


"Something is wrong with you,"


M, you seem to take it so seriously. Is there something wrong with me that I don't get all whiney and bipolar on the Internet?


Are you bipolar M? Or just a big softy? Am I your "analyst"? Are you mine?


Aren't we all like Tony Soprano, deep down? Or isn't that just a joke image, a cliche, that doesn't exist in the real world?


eLROY

Different people get bothered by different things.


Some people get bothered when you call them names.


Other people get bothered when you take half their money, and threaten to put them in prison if they don't cooperate.


So, the trick is to find people whose ears are all downy-soft and silken, and whose hearts are malleable like puddy, and to sweettalk them into turning over all their money without a fight.


Some people are such suckers for sweet talk, they can't even tell when somebody is actually robbing them. I mean gosh, they never said anything mean, they must mean me well, right?


They've got their tongue in your ear, and their hand in your wallet, M.


eLROY

eLROY, you have called a great many people on these forums names--not just me.


You have issues and you should address them. Failing that, you should at least stop degrading the quality of these forums with your constant flaming and name-calling.


If I were Mason, you and your IP address would already have been barred. Mason has posted the forum rules many times, and a wide spectrum of points of view are allowed. However, as he recently posted, posts must be made in a professional and polite manner, and no name-calling.


You disrespect everyone on these forums when you stoop to name-calling, not only the person whom you call a name---and you do it very frequently, and to many people. You also disrespect the hosts of this web site by blatantly disregarding their rules, and by introducing a nasty and uncalled-for element in many of your posts.


Why can't you just discuss topics without getting personal and attacking people? Why do you say Tom Haley's stepdaughter's beau is "some black sissy" and "illegal with a capital I" when you have ZERO basis for these opinions? You are just a sorry flamer--and I'll bet most of the forum is sorry Mason puts up with you.

Did that tickle?


Am I getting in there right?


eLROY

Don't you realize how little respect you show when you call people names? Ray Zee has had to caution you on this. Actually, I think I see a theme in many of your posts...you don't respect anyone, period, perhaps. And maybe you don't realize it, but when you disrespect others, it is not only loutish behavior, but it makes you look bad too. When you disrespect others you disrespect yourself too. Think about it.

Can you help yourself, M?


Can you help but get a little bit of a warm feeling when I sweettalk you like that?


Can you control the feeling?


MMMMmmmmmmmmmm.


eLROY

I personally show disrespect for anyone who doesn't respect my right to trade freely with my fellow man, and dispose of my income as I see fit.


And, truly, I couldn't think less of people who whine about the rake, or ATM fees or something, but have been sweettalked into rationalizing such ridiculously high taxes.


It reminds me of the girl who gets dumped, and then tells herself "I'm actually better off this way."


I'm a happy taxpayer, yay /images/smile.gif


eLROY

Paul Pudaite, David Sklansky, and maybe Tom Weideman probably are.


The wisest man on these forums might be Ray Zee.

Well you're not thinking clearly if you assume everyone on these forums is telling you what you should do with your income. I don't think ANYBODY is.

How come is it, M, that when the taxman comes for me he is armed to the teeth, with more manpower than Chinese agriculture, and more technology than NASA?


Because of YOU, M. You are a "payer."


You lie down for them - just so you can live your selfish silly little life in peace - and then they take your money, and buy guns and handcuffs, and come after me!


You are also a voter, and all of it is done in selfishness. Like Andy Fox says, he has all he needs, and he would be happy to pay off a little to keep the riots contained on the other side of town.


You'd be happy to give up half, so that you can keep half, that's what a sissy you are.


But when what you are paying for, is for them to come after me when I don't want to give up half, you're going to hear about it.


Truth is, poor people have more minute-to-minute freedom in third-world countries, where the government doesn't have the infinite resources to harrass them.


eLROY

>I personally show disrespect for anyone who >doesn't respect my right to trade freely with my >fellow man, and dispose of my income as I see >fit.


LOL. I don't think anyone here has ever said they like high taxes. I think what people argue is that they don't have a problem paying high taxes if they feel their money is being used properly.


If you cut taxes, you also have to cut spending. Well, what do you want to cut? Social programs? Military spending? NASA? Research spending? Medicare? Medicaid? It's not as easy as saying "cut taxes, it's good for the economy". Unless you believe in the Laffer curve.


And how many people pay 50% in taxes anyway? Im back in school, but my tax rate for my first job was about 29% after deductions and whatnot.

This post, like so many of your posts, is full of assumptions.


You also just said you were a "happy taxpayer" in another post. So it appears that YOU are financing that which you object to. Don't take it out on strangers, eLROY. Look in the mirror and punch yourself in the face if that's what you want to do, but don't bark and bite at every stranger you meet because you're really mad at yourself.

'And how many people pay 50% in taxes anyway? Im back in school, but my tax rate for my first job was about 29% after deductions and whatnot'


well thats just income tax, right?


sales tax, gas tax, etc.


brad

Abdul, backdoor...who knows, maybe even Mason;-)..and perhaps some others I may have forgotten at the moment or who just never said much--and let's not forget John Cole's erudition...

Sheikh Ahmed Yassin. Under a prior name, Hamas was founded in the 1970's as an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, an Egyptian organization dating to the 1920's. It was renamed “Hamas,” Arabaic for “zeal” but also an acronym for Islamic Resistance Movement, in either 1987 or 1988, during the first intifada.


Israel helped too. Richard Sale of the UPI reported on Feb. 24, 2001 (reported in Virtual New York, vny.com), that


“according to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials, beginning in the late 1970s, Tel Aviv gave direct and indirect financial aid to Hamas over a period of years. Israel ‘aided Hamas directly -- the Israelis wanted to use it as a counterbalance to the PLO,’ said Tony Cordesman, Middle East analyst for the Center for Strategic Studies. Israel’s support for Hamas ‘was a direct attempt to divide and dilute support for a strong, secular PLO by using a competing religious alternative,’ said a former senior CIA official. . . .


"According to ICT papers, Hamas was legally registered in Israel in 1978 by Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, the movements spiritual leader, as an Islamic Association by the name Al-Mujamma Al Islami, which widened its base of supporters and sympathizers by religious propaganda and social work. Funds for the movement came from the oil-producing states and directly and indirectly from Israel, according to U.S. intelligence officials. The PLO was secular and leftist and promoted Palestinian nationalism. Hamas wanted set up a transnational state under the rule of Islam, much like Khomeini’s Iran. . . .


"[W]ith the triumph of the Khomeini revolution in Iran, with the birth of Iranian-backed Hezbollah terrorism in Lebanon, Hamas began to gain strength in Gaza and then in the West Bank, relying on terror to resist the Israeli occupation. Israel was certainly funding the group at that time. One US intelligence source who asked not to be named, said that not only was Hamas being funded as a ‘counterweight’ to the PLO, Israeli aid had a more devious purpose: ‘to help identify and channel towards Israeli agents Hamas members who were dangerous terrorists.’ In addition, by infiltrating Hamas, Israeli informers could listen to debates on policy and identify Hamas members who ‘were dangerous hardliners,’ the official said. In the end, as Hamas set up a very comprehensive counterintelligence system, many collaborators with Israel were weeded out and shot. Violent acts of terrorism became the central tenet, and Hamas, unlike the PLO, was unwilling to compromise in any way with Israel, refusing to acknowledge its very existence. Even then, some in Israel saw some benefits to be had in trying to continue to give Hamas support: ‘The thinking on the part of some of the right-wing Israeli establishment was that Hamas and the other groups, if they gained control, would refuse to have anything to do with the pace process and would torpedo any agreements put in place,’ said a U.S. government official. ‘Israel would still be the only democracy in the region for the United States to deal with,’ he said. All of which is viewed with disapproval by some former U.S. intelligence officials. ‘The thing wrong with so many Israeli operations is that they try to be too sexy,’ said former CIA official Vincent Cannestraro. Former State Department counter-terrorism official Larry Johnson told UPI: ‘The Israelis are their own worst enemies when it comes to fighting terrorism. They are like a guy who sets fire to his hair and then tries to put it out by hitting it with a hammer. They do more to incite and sustain terrorism than curb it.’”

[end article quotes]


The foreging criticism is an old one, routinely offered up as an example of Sharon’s short-sightedness and stupidity in liberal journals like the New York Times and Ha’aretz. Of course, it’s only stupid if one accepts the assumption that the Israeli government is unable to comprehend that it’s routine killing of Palestinian civilians* and destruction of Palestinian property is likely to incite terrorism. It also assumes that Israel is more concerned with preventing terrorism than in maintaining the occupation and in preventing the emergence of an independent Palestine, even though the government has already sacrificed tens of thousands of lives, including hundreds if not thousands of Israelis, over several decades to prevent that event from happening, which the Israeli right considers to be a modest price in order to avoid giving back so much as an inch of Eretz Israel. You see this mentality reflected, for example, in Sharon’s recent pledge to never surrender a “single” settlement, apparently no matter how many people on both sides die as a result of the need to maintain and defend them.


* Like the mother and her two children who were murdered -- there is no other word for it -- by tank fire while picking grape leaves near Jenin three days ago. According B'Tselem -- the Israeli Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories --


"The IDF Spokesperson claimed that during an army patrol in the area, 'an explosion was heard in the tank as a result of the tank track disconnecting. The soldiers in the tank understood that a mine had exploded. In accordance with regulations, the soldiers opened fire at suspicious points.' According to several publications in the press, the IDF Spokesperson claimed that the soldiers acted in accordance with regulations, which determine, among other things, that when a tank hits a mine, the soldiers must shoot in all directions."


They saw some Palestinians, and therefore killed them. The IDF expressed regret over the incident.

...Vince's Greatest Moments

'Even then, some in Israel saw some benefits to be had in trying to continue to give Hamas support: ‘The thinking on the part of some of the right-wing Israeli establishment was that Hamas and the other groups, if they gained control, would refuse to have anything to do with the pace process and would torpedo any agreements put in place,’ said a U.S. government official.'


yeah, i had heard that. what a mess. im surprised we dont just ship all the palestinians over to the US. im sure more illegal alien mexicans have come over in the past 10 years than the population of occupied territories or whatever.


brad