Confused AA

[pho75]

I only have about 300 hands at the NLH50 level so I'm still trying to figure out what goes on inside these guys heads.

This was a very tight table and my %'s for this session were in the range of 28/12/4. Up to this point all of the big hands I had raised with got no callers so I decided to lower my raise a bit on this hand.

I seem to be precieved as tight and dangerous as no one has been willing to mix it up with me much. I don't know why they would think this as I'v been steeling alot preflop to make up for the lack of action on my big hands.

I have to say that I was nervous and confused during the entire hand, and after looking at it now, I'm still confused. Any comments are welcome. What's going on here?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)


SB ($21.80)
BB ($141.30)
UTG ($91.75)
UTG+1 ($38.10)
UTG+2 ($54.07)
MP1 ($54.55)
MP2 ($47.45)
Hero ($70.50)
CO ($67.69)
Button ($29.35)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls $2, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+1 calls $1.50, MP1 calls $1.50.

Like I said I lowered my PFR a bit to get some action. I didn't like the outcome at all. I guess they finally got sick of folding to me.

Flop: ($8.75) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif

After this flop I had a weird/sick feeling in my stomach, like I was going to loose my stack. It totaly messed up my head and I think I played the rest of the hand like a chump.
MP1's stats after 90 hands where 14/7/2.

<font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets $4</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $8</font>, Button folds, UTG+1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to $15</font>, Hero calls $7.


Turn: ($38.75) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets $15</font>, Hero calls $15.

River: ($68.75) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, Hero calls $38.50 (All-In), MP1 folds.

Final Pot: $107.25

[pho75]

nothing?

Guess he had a smaller PP.

I would fold to the 3-bet on the flop, but I become very weak-tight on paired flops.
On the turn I think you should be raising or folding, either you think he's got a jack or not. Calling may get you a cheap showdown, but there's no reason to think he won't push the river.

On the river do any better hands fold/worse hands call?

[Hattifnatt]

I think you should make it $3 preflop even if you hadnt got any action earlier. If you make standard raises and they always fold you can steal with more hands instead. Lower the raise with a huge hand is not the way to go imo.

Postflop looks ok. If hes 3-bet on the flop was higher I probably muck it right there.

[Hattifnatt]

[ QUOTE ]
On the turn I think you should be raising or folding, either you think he's got a jack or not. Calling may get you a cheap showdown, but there's no reason to think he won't push the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree, its a WA/WB situation except for the BD flush. If villian had nothing he might bluff again on the river. If he raises he will almost only be called by a better hand. This is pretty read-depending though.

[pho75]

[ QUOTE ]
If hes 3-bet on the flop was higher I probably muck it right there.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is though, the higher the raise, the less likely he has the third jack. Unless he's a fish, then the opposite is true.

What do you think he had? KK?

[Hattifnatt]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If hes 3-bet on the flop was higher I probably muck it right there.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is though, the higher the raise, the less likely he has the third jack. Unless he's a fish, then the opposite is true.

What do you think he had? KK?

[/ QUOTE ]
I think he had air or a very low PP trying to represent a J on the flop and the turn and then gave up the bluff on the river.

Hey I'm just getting back into NL so this is my first post in this forum.

I'm interested in the river action. Is this a value bet or are you trying to potentially get him off of a weaker jack? I think I would make it like $20 here and hope he calls with his pocket pair.

Also would be better if you had not included that he had folded, maybe I'm being results oritented.

[Godfather80]

[ QUOTE ]
I only have about 300 hands at the NLH50 level so I'm still trying to figure out what goes on inside these guys heads.

This was a very tight table and my %'s for this session were in the range of 28/12/4. Up to this point all of the big hands I had raised with got no callers so I decided to lower my raise a bit on this hand.

I seem to be precieved as tight and dangerous as no one has been willing to mix it up with me much. I don't know why they would think this as I'v been steeling alot preflop to make up for the lack of action on my big hands.

I have to say that I was nervous and confused during the entire hand, and after looking at it now, I'm still confused. Any comments are welcome. What's going on here?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)


SB ($21.80)
BB ($141.30)
UTG ($91.75)
UTG+1 ($38.10)
UTG+2 ($54.07)
MP1 ($54.55)
MP2 ($47.45)
Hero ($70.50)
CO ($67.69)
Button ($29.35)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls $2, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+1 calls $1.50, MP1 calls $1.50.

Like I said I lowered my PFR a bit to get some action. I didn't like the outcome at all. I guess they finally got sick of folding to me.

Flop: ($8.75) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif

After this flop I had a weird/sick feeling in my stomach, like I was going to loose my stack. It totaly messed up my head and I think I played the rest of the hand like a chump.
MP1's stats after 90 hands where 14/7/2.

<font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets $4</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $8</font>, Button folds, UTG+1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to $15</font>, Hero calls $7.


Turn: ($38.75) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets $15</font>, Hero calls $15.

River: ($68.75) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, Hero calls $38.50 (All-In), MP1 folds.

Final Pot: $107.25

[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop is foolish. Don't lower your raise size, just raise with more hands. Eventually, they will call.
Post flop is fine.

Does anybody else just call villain's flop bet and then call all the way down? What does Hero's min-raise on the flop really accomplish here?

[pho75]

[ QUOTE ]
Guess he had a smaller PP.

I would fold to the 3-bet on the flop,

[/ QUOTE ]

I almost did but then I thought, it looks like he's trying to get information just like me.


[ QUOTE ]
On the turn I think you should be raising or folding, either you think he's got a jack or not. Calling may get you a cheap showdown, but there's no reason to think he won't push the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know, I knew I would be facing another bet on the river if I called. But if I raised it would be for the rest of his chips and I though he would only call if he's got it.

At the time I felt beat, but only about 75% beat if that makes sense.

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On the river do any better hands fold/worse hands call?

[/ QUOTE ]

no, not very often. My thinking was this:

I think I'm beat but he still seems unsure of his hand, why?. If I check behind I'll probably loose. If I bet I don't think a worse hand will call but a hand like JT might fold fearing a full house or a AJ. He's a very tight player. His showdown % is only 14%.

I still think the river bet is bad though.

[pho75]

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Preflop is foolish. Don't lower your raise size, just raise with more hands. Eventually, they will call.


[/ QUOTE ]

you're right. It was out of frustration.

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What does Hero's min-raise on the flop really accomplish here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats exactly what I want to know. My thinking was this:

I wanted to raise for two reasons. To get heads up with this guy and to get information. I thought that a minraise would accomplish both with the smallest risk. It was not a pot building raise for sure.

What do you think of my reasoning?

[pho75]

[ QUOTE ]

I'm interested in the river action. Is this a value bet or are you trying to potentially get him off of a weaker jack?

[/ QUOTE ]

Like I said, I was very confused by this point. I felt that if I checked behind I would loose. I thought the only chance I have to win is to bet strong and perhaps get JT to fold, fearing a full house or AJ. He's a very tight player. I didn't think he would call with anything I beat. I think it was the wrong play though.


[ QUOTE ]
Also would be better if you had not included that he had folded,

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree.

[pho75]

what's WA/WB?

[Hattifnatt]

[ QUOTE ]
what's WA/WB?

[/ QUOTE ]
Way ahead/Way behind

[Godfather80]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Preflop is foolish. Don't lower your raise size, just raise with more hands. Eventually, they will call.


[/ QUOTE ]

you're right. It was out of frustration.

[ QUOTE ]
What does Hero's min-raise on the flop really accomplish here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats exactly what I want to know. My thinking was this:

I wanted to raise for two reasons. To get heads up with this guy and to get information. I thought that a minraise would accomplish both with the smallest risk. It was not a pot building raise for sure.

What do you think of my reasoning?

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's the thing: I agree that you would like to play this pot heads up, but you are probably against 2 pocket pairs if it stays 3 handed (possibly against 56s or 45s). Both of these hands (pp or pair of 5s) have 2 outs. So, I don't necessarily mind flat calling the flop bet.

The question is: will flat calling opponent's flop bet cause either/both of your opponents to make a second-best hand that will pay you off? I think that it is possible, depending on their aggressiveness. Calling makes it seem like you have AK and could set up a good money making opportunity for you if one of your opponents gets frisky on the turn.

I might flat call the flop and raise the turn if bet at again. Or, if checked to on the turn, I'd make a 1/2 pot sized bet.