When do you fold AA? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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11-27-2005, 01:27 AM

Here are a couple of hands. The first one I think is questionable, the second one I think is clearer. Comments on all streets welcome.

Party Poker $50 No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 (6 max, 4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG ($59.20)
Button ($25.25)
SB ($45.45)
Hero ($45)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG raises to $2, 1 fold, SB (poster) calls $1.75, Hero raises to $5.5, UTG calls $4, SB calls $4.

Flop: ($18) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $10, UTG calls $53.20 (All-In), SB folds, Hero calls $29 (All-In).

Turn: ($110.20) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($110.20) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $110.20

Hand #2:
Party Poker $50 No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

saw flop|saw showdown

Hero ($53.70)
Button ($36.60)
SB ($40.50)
BB ($67.70)
UTG ($61.20)
MP ($17.50)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG calls $0.50, 1 fold, Hero raises to $2, Button raises to $5, 2 folds, UTG folds, Hero raises to $18, Button calls $13.

Flop: ($37.25) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $20, Button calls $18.60 (All-In).

Turn: ($75.85) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($75.85) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $75.85

yvesaint

11-27-2005, 01:36 AM

second one is automatic push

first one raise more pre-flop for sure, bump it up to like 9-10

Maulik

11-27-2005, 01:40 AM

hand #1 i raise more PF, fold as played.

#2 looks good.

Maulik

11-27-2005, 01:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
second one is automatic push

first one raise more pre-flop for sure, bump it up to like 9-10

[/ QUOTE ]

do you really raise that much?

scdavis0

11-27-2005, 03:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
hand #1 i raise more PF, fold as played.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding in hand #1 would be absolutely ridiculous.

ThaHero

11-27-2005, 04:06 AM

AQ, KK, and KQ play hand 1 like that. Unfortunately so does QQ but getting 2-1 I call a push here.

Wayfare

11-27-2005, 04:15 AM

You're obviously not folding either of these hands.

BigFishSmallCardRoom

11-27-2005, 04:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You're obviously not folding either of these hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

BigFishSmallCardRoom

11-27-2005, 04:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
second one is automatic push

first one raise more pre-flop for sure, bump it up to like 9-10

[/ QUOTE ]

BigFishSmallCardRoom

11-27-2005, 04:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
second one is automatic push

first one raise more pre-flop for sure, bump it up to like 9-10

[/ QUOTE ]

do you really raise that much?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would certainly raise that much OOP.

11-27-2005, 06:13 AM

First hand I like calling the all in. Your opponent could have AQ or QK. If he flopped the nuts Q full of 3s he would not play the flop so fast, he would slowplay.

Second hand, it seems like your opponent really likes his hand so I would go all in preflop after he reraises you. Don't get fancy with the Aces, after all, they are only one pair.

Hattifnatt

11-27-2005, 10:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
second one is automatic push

first one raise more pre-flop for sure, bump it up to like 9-10

[/ QUOTE ]

do you really raise that much?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would certainly raise that much OOP.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think its too much. I vote for a total of $6-$7.

Isura

11-27-2005, 12:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
second one is automatic push

first one raise more pre-flop for sure, bump it up to like 9-10

[/ QUOTE ]

do you really raise that much?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would certainly raise that much OOP.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think its too much. I vote for a total of $6-$7.

[/ QUOTE ]

At this limit I routinely make it 10-15 and get multiple callers.

Hattifnatt

11-27-2005, 12:54 PM

Ur kiddin right, the big blind is 50 cent. Someone makes it 1.75 and you think youll get callers for a raise to 20-30 bb?

-Skeme-

11-27-2005, 12:59 PM

I fold it preflop every now and then.. it makes me less predictable I think.

-Skeme-

11-27-2005, 01:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Folding in hand #1 would be absolutely ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
You're obviously not folding either of these hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hattifnatt

11-27-2005, 01:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I fold it preflop every now and then.. it makes me less predictable I think.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually a friend of mine, very good player, once told me that a good full ring limit player that needs to be more disciplined (learn to fold fold fold when the cards are not the right ones) can trim this in by for a session or two fold preflop every time he gets AA...

Skuzzy

11-27-2005, 01:12 PM

I fold AA when preflop action diagrammed my hand as AA or KK, I have a deep stack (200BB+) and am up against another deep stack who pushes a ragged flop. Unless I know he will push any two here to push me off my AA in which case I call the sucker. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

*edit - I also sometimes diagram AA preflop with any 2 so that when he tries this I can fold and he'll think he owned me and so try it again and I can bust the sucker /images/graemlins/wink.gif

rikz

11-27-2005, 02:08 PM

Hand 1:
[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Hero is BB with A, A. SB posts a blind of $0.25. UTG raises to $2, 1 fold, SB (poster) calls $1.75, Hero raises to $5.5, UTG calls $4, SB calls $4.

[/ QUOTE ]

A pot sized raise over UTG would have been .25 SB + .50 your BB + $2 UTG raise + $1.75 SB caller + $1.5 (you call) = $6, so a raise to $8 total (BB+call+raise) would have been "pot sized." I would recommend a raise to $8 total preflop. A raise like that would have probably left you heads up with UTG. After that, I don't think a hand like 3x is along for the ride unless it's 33 hoping for a set without good odds to do so. After that, I think you pay off UTG's QQ (full house), but you're ahead of everything else he might have here.

Oh, and if I did the psr calculation wrong, somebody let me know. I've been working on how to calculate it.

Hand 2 looks ok to me.

11-27-2005, 09:20 PM

Hand 1: Villain has KQ. I win.

Hand 2: Villain has QQ. Unlucky flop, but I agree, I can't really get away from it. Knock the table and move on.

Thanks for the replies. I guess you guys are right on hand 1. I have to push preflop. With a reraise like this, I obviously have AA, maybe possibly KK. He gets to call and push if he hits his set, or fold if not. I need to force him to make the tough decision for all of his chips preflop.

11-28-2005, 11:51 AM

I hope your kidding, if you want to be less predictable do it in your betting patterns not in folding AA pre flop retard

11-28-2005, 11:57 AM

Your friends obviosuly not a good player or he wouldnt fold AA pre flop! It dosent take a genius to know you never fold AA pre flop, EVER...

11-28-2005, 11:58 AM

I agree

11-28-2005, 07:41 PM

I'd play it as you did. It's not a flush draw flop. It's unlikely they called your riase with A,3, but A,Q is a likely hand you would beat. They might have KK. Only pocket QQ looks really ugly and sometimes you just have to gamble.
ON the second hand, I think again QQ. He didn't call your $13 raise with 56.

ChipWrecked

11-29-2005, 04:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I hope your kidding, if you want to be less predictable do it in your betting patterns not in folding AA pre flop retard

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, you just called the guy who wrote the FAQ a retard.

Welcome to the board, douchenozzle n00b.

Reef

11-29-2005, 05:42 AM

hand 1, pfr more. I usually call flop

hand 2, call and wish he had a bigger stack