O.O.P.S.

[Tommy Angelo]

At the cookout poker game at Tim's house, Ulysses asked opinions on what to do with Q-10 before the flop, next to act behind a straddler. I don't recall if he specified suited or not. I said I'd fold every time. One of the reasons I said that is because Q-10 is the first decently alluring sucky hands that I distinctly recall removing from my play list in the early seats, back when the first Burning Bush was in charge.

$15-30. There's a straddle on my right by a bluffaholic, a player against whom I am happy to call all river bets for life with ace-high. It was a one shot straddle, not an every-round thing.

Had I had Q-10 suited, I probably would have folded. But I had slightly better: J-9 suited. So I made it three bets. Two players cold-called behind, one of the blinds called, and the straddler called. Five to the flop.

The flop was 10-9-x. The straddler bet. What to do? I believed that a raise by me would have no effect on the cold-callers' decisions to stay in or not. And it was still a long way to the river. So I went against my normal pump-or-dump-with-players-behind-on-the-flop approach and just called. It didn't feel good. But then, it's not supposed to feel good when I start out with OOPS.

O ut
O f
P osition
S hit

Everyone called the straddler's bet on the flop. The turn was a low blank. The blind checked, the straddler bet, and now all of a sudden I liked my hand, and I was very glad I had not raised the flop, because I got the information that most likely no one had a ten except maybe the straddler.

So I raised the turn and I heard some groans from behind, and I saw some folds, and poof, I was heads up with the straddler with a guarenteed showdown in my future.

The river paired the ten. The straddler bet. I suppose he could have had a ten, though I felt it very unlikely. Looked to me like a slingbet, and that he had nothing, or else he had deceived me thoroughly. So I just called. And he mucked.

This hand would have been so much easier with Q-10.


Tommy

[Louie Landale]

Good funny post. OOPS "Out Of Position [censored]" is something I'm going to remember, and likely plagerize.

You'd be doing us a greater service if you demonstrated why OOPS are really OOPS, such as getting into a situation where you just don't know what to do and end up loosing to some bigger Oops, such as K9.

- Louie

[Ed Miller]

I know many people on this forum believe that a live straddle is license to completely abandon all preflop standards.. espeically in early position, and start opening the pot with any two cards with which they could imagine dragging a big pot. I see people recommending 3-betting with hands like KJo from UTG after a straddle all the time... and I see this behavior in the games I play as well.

Just because someone put two bets in with a random hand doesn't mean that AK will be behind you any less often... it doesn't mean that playing a big pot out of position will suck less... and it won't automagically flop you a boat.

Frankly, I think this crazy overreaction to live straddles is the 2+2 version of the girlfriend effect that normal players face on a regular basis. Girlfriend says, "Honey, I'm really bored and sick of watching these degenerate drunk bastards waste their money. I want to go home and shag instead." Degenerate drunk bastard boyfriend says, "Fine.. ok.. let me play two more hands." And boy is he gonna play those two hands.

Think about how you would play if someone straddled every hand... and do that when someone does happen to straddle.

[Vehn]

Frankly, I think this crazy overreaction to live straddles is the 2+2 version of the girlfriend effect that normal players face on a regular basis. Girlfriend says, "Honey, I'm really bored and sick of watching these degenerate drunk bastards waste their money. I want to go home and shag instead." Degenerate drunk bastard boyfriend says, "Fine.. ok.. let me play two more hands." And boy is he gonna play those two hands.

Anyone who says this to his girlfriend is an idiot. Obviously the correct response is "I just paid my blinds, under the table"

[Andy B]

I think the idiocy is in bringing a non-playing girlfriend to the card club in the first place.

[Rick Nebiolo]

I think for most people it is worse to bring a card playing girlfriend to the card club ;-).

[Mike]

I don't normally post here because I don't play here, but I see this all the time in the 1/2 kill game. People that play like they have cement in their back pockets play like fools in a 1/2 kill hand. I know I used to be one of them. Now I play my hand normally and watch them slug it out with a pair of threes going against a runner runner, while the only sane player in the hand keeps adding up the pot total as they fight it out.

[Andy B]

From a financial standpoint, yes, most guys would be better off leaving their card-playing wives/girlfriends at home. Most players would be better off still if they stayed home themselves. From the standpoint of (1) having an enjoyable gambling experience and (2) scoring points with one's woman, I can't imagine having a woman looking over my shoulder while I played.

[mike l.]

"So I made it three bets. Two players cold-called behind, one of the blinds called, and the straddler called. Five to the flop."

wow, i think i may have found the first (and likely only) thing in my current game that is better than tommy's!

im glad this hand turned out well for you tommy, but i am so into dumping absolutely everything but the most legit of very strong hands in a straddle pot. for instance maybe try to isolate w/ KJo? forget it! in the much it goes! it's for the exact reason that things almost always turn out the way they did preflop (see quote above) in this hand. all sorts of people call, the pot is bloated, straddler usually caps it, and there's the good player in their with some marginal junk playing crapshoot to the river just like the rest of em. f*ck it. ive never live straddled ever (with the single exception of utg/on the button 3 handed game, but that's a completely different thing) and ive added to that never playing loose and marginal stuff in straddle pots. amen.

[mike l.]

"I think for most people it is worse to bring a card playing girlfriend to the card club ;-)."

cmon now rick i heard hero's supporting your gambling problem..

[mike l.]

"I see people recommending 3-betting with hands like KJo from UTG after a straddle all the time... and I see this behavior in the games I play as well."

and just like you i disagree with it! wow, i didnt read your post till after i wrote mine, but go check it out, i specifically singled out KJo as well as a hand that goes from marginal to unplayable when the pot is a straddle pot.

[Softrock]

One of my early poker mentors some 20 years ago was a Reno based pro (now deceased) who argued strongly that QTo was the biggest trap hand in limit Holdem.Unfortunately, I still struggle with it appearing stronger than it is and suspect I play it far too often in spite of my knowledge that says otherwise.