20/40 I spray chips...last one I promise :-) - 55 [Archive]

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Surfbullet

11-26-2005, 06:08 PM

Villain is 42/9/1.8/38 over 70ish. aggressive but not crazy, and doesn't really know how to fold a pair in HU pots.

Party Poker 20/40 Hold'em (4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, Hero raises, BB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, Hero 3-bets, BB calls.

River: (9 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 12 BB

sthief09

11-26-2005, 06:10 PM

ive seen enough people go absolutely ape [censored] in blind wars that i will never again fold a pair ever, especially on this board on the river getting 12-1

Surfbullet

11-26-2005, 06:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
ive seen enough people go absolutely ape [censored] in blind wars that i will never again fold a pair ever, especially on this board on the river getting 12-1

[/ QUOTE ]

I know...but i'm trying so hard to learn how to save bets! I'm a value-machine but I need to start losing less when behind.

Surf

sthief09

11-26-2005, 06:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ive seen enough people go absolutely ape [censored] in blind wars that i will never again fold a pair ever, especially on this board on the river getting 12-1

[/ QUOTE ]

I know...but i'm trying so hard to learn how to save bets! I'm a value-machine but I need to start losing less when behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

the problem with being a value-machine then folding for one bet is you build big pots for your opponents to steal from you

i just cant imagine ever not getting to showdown on this board with this hand against this opponent

Monty Cantsin

11-26-2005, 07:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
ive seen enough people go absolutely ape [censored] in blind wars that i will never again fold a pair ever

[/ QUOTE ]

I just want to highlight this, because it's a crucial bit of information, super simple but not necessarily obvious.

If you start with the idea that in this particular situation (blind battle) you are never folding a pair, you can swing the rest of your strategies around this fixed point. It will make these situations easier to analyze and I think it is close to optimal and not highly exploitable.

/mc

Surfbullet

11-26-2005, 07:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]

If you start with the idea that in this particular situation (blind battle) you are never folding a pair, you can swing the rest of your strategies around this fixed point. It will make these situations easier to analyze and I think it is close to optimal and not highly exploitable.
/mc

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been migrating this way more and more lately... maybe the turn 3bet is over the top then, and a calldown is better to go along with this strategy?

Surf

Danenania

11-26-2005, 07:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
ive seen enough people go absolutely ape [censored] in blind wars that i will never again fold a pair ever

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is overstating a bit. What I tell myself with a pair is to look for reasons to call, not reasons to fold. But there are still spots and players where folding a pair makes sense, even a pretty good pair sometimes.

That said, I like calling river in this hand for sure.

Wynton

11-26-2005, 08:52 PM

I don't really see the point of the turn 3-bet. If you thought you had the best hand, wouldn't it be better to just call the turn raise and then c/r the river? In other words, if your hand really is best, I don't think you'd get more from your opponent by the 3-betting the turn. It also doesn't seem to be that 3-betting the turn is likely to make your opponent fold anything that you want him to fold.

In addition, if you're not sure your hand is best, why not just call the turn and river, which would have cost you the same as the way you played the hand?

Surfbullet

11-26-2005, 08:55 PM

Hey Wynton,

I was pretty confident that my hand was best on the turn, this type of raise is a BS semibluff/pure bluff/crap pair or A-hi very often. Historically, my play would be to call down from here, but i've realized that guys in this game just don't fold pairs or A hi HU, and i'm trying to capitalize on that. However, if he'll stab again at the river even a decent %age of the time then I probably am better of calling down from the raise.

Surf

baronzeus

11-26-2005, 10:07 PM

i just call down after the turn raise. let him bluff the river with Q high when his draw/pair misses.

krishanleong

11-26-2005, 10:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i just call down after the turn raise. let him bluff the river with Q high when his draw/pair misses.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too. I don't think the bet/fold on the river is horrible.

Krishan

Surfbullet

11-26-2005, 10:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i just call down after the turn raise. let him bluff the river with Q high when his draw/pair misses.

[/ QUOTE ]

didn't it take like 4 threads to get you to lay off 3betting turns in situations like this? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Thanks guys, duly noted.

Surf

baronzeus

11-26-2005, 10:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i just call down after the turn raise. let him bluff the river with Q high when his draw/pair misses.

[/ QUOTE ]

didn't it take like 4 threads to get you to lay off 3betting turns in situations like this? /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Thanks guys, duly noted.

Surf

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

My aggression stats:

[ QUOTE ]

Turn: 2.01

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a loose passive fish!

Monty Cantsin

11-27-2005, 12:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]

...there are still spots and players where folding a pair makes sense, even a pretty good pair sometimes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but these spots become exceptions.

/mc

Spicymoose

11-27-2005, 12:38 PM

I think the turn 3-bet is definetly too much. Let him bluff if he is behind, and if he is ahead, you arn't getting him to laydown.