$109... Bite Now... Okay, Now... Please?

[bigt439]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Hero (t1835)
UTG (t1990)
Button (t1290)
SB (t4885)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls t200, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero checks.

Flop: (t500) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: (t500) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: (t500) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks,

Eh?

[handsome]

Haha, funny joke. Now what did you really do?

[Freudian]

Why not take what looks to be a weak stab at the pot on the turn?

[microbet]

At this point, I don't think dude is going to bluff the river. If he had a Q, you'd already know it, and if he has an ace, he'll call your bet or come over the top.

I'd bet the minimum and he'll call with any pair.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
At this point, I don't think dude is going to bluff the river. If he had a Q, you'd already know it, and if he has an ace, he'll call your bet or come over the top.

I'd bet the minimum and he'll call with any pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd rather overbet the river (to avoid showing people how bad I played it) instead of checking.

[bawcerelli]

stab the turn. since u didn't, i might check that river hoping he'll bet the ace.

[tigerite]

There's 500 in the pot and you have 1600 on the flop. What are you doing pissing about here? Bet the flop, at the very least.

[bones]

I think you missed something pretty key here. The villian limped on the button. Do you know any aggressive players who ever limp on the button with 6 bbs in a 4 handed game? You're trying to trap the wrong guy here. Bet for value, cause he's not gonna bet your hand for you.

[tigerite]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you missed something pretty key here. The villian limped on the button. Do you know any aggressive players who ever limp on the button with 6 bbs in a 4 handed game? You're trying to trap the wrong guy here. Bet for value, cause he's not gonna bet your hand for you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bang on. If you don't bet the flop, at the very least bet the bloody turn, come on! Those chips will be a huge help to you even if he folds, and you got into this hand for nothing!

[Jman28]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At this point, I don't think dude is going to bluff the river. If he had a Q, you'd already know it, and if he has an ace, he'll call your bet or come over the top.

I'd bet the minimum and he'll call with any pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd rather overbet the river (to avoid showing people how bad I played it) instead of checking.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why don't you want them to see how bad you played it?

[durron597]

Make a small bet on the turn. Since you didn't, make a small bet on the river.

[bigt439]

There have been alot of replies with no insight at all. Bones made a very good point though and that's part of what I was thinking on the hand.

My thought process throughout the hand is what is he calling with that he doesn't bet. He's also drawing to like 2 outs maybe. On the river, if he hit his A he's almost always betting and will have a lot of trouble folding to my c/r all-in.

I think it's pretty easy to look at this post and be like, dude, you have a good hand, bet. I'm not saying what I did was right, but a lot of the analysis here has no backing to it. Bet the turn, bet the river... why?

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
stab the turn. since u didn't, i might check that river hoping he'll bet the ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, this is how I would play it, but I'd really hate myself for not betting the turn when I checked.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
There have been alot of replies with no insight at all. Bones made a very good point though and that's part of what I was thinking on the hand.

My thought process throughout the hand is what is he calling with that he doesn't bet. He's also drawing to like 2 outs maybe. On the river, if he hit his A he's almost always betting and will have a lot of trouble folding to my c/r all-in.

I think it's pretty easy to look at this post and be like, dude, you have a good hand, bet. I'm not saying what I did was right, but a lot of the analysis here has no backing to it. Bet the turn, bet the river... why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Structuring your play hoping not only an ace comes on the river and hoping that he indeed has that ace and wants to bet on it seems an odd way of earning chips.

Now put the villain on 77 and you will see why betting before the river make sense. He knows you are playing any two and most likely the flop missed you. Or for that matter put him on A5, A7, a pocket pair etc. You want him to get not only one but two free cards?

I think you are trying to be way too fancy here. Add that what is in the middle already is 30% of the size of your stack. Picking up those 500 is an ok outcome, right?

[bones]

[ QUOTE ]
My thought process throughout the hand is what is he calling with that he doesn't bet

[/ QUOTE ]

This is where his limp on the button comes in. This is about the most passive thing you can do in an sng. Even though the 109s are typically aggressive, there are some passive donks. TOP states that if your opponent will bet more hands than he'll call with, you should check to him more to induce bluffs. If he calls more hands than he'll bet, then you need to bet your hands for value.

It doesn't make sense to TAGs why someone would call more hands than they'd bet in a short stacked situation, but it's how some people play.

[ilya]

As bones has pointed out, your opponent's button limp strongly suggests that he's passive. So, I would bet the flop. I would also bet the turn. And, given how the hand played out, I would also bet the river representing a bluff, as I don't even feel like you can count on him to bet an Ace. So I would bet 300-400 on the river, big enough to represent a bluff, but not so big that he won't have more than half of his stack left if he calls.

[bigt439]

I don't know...

I feel like there still hasn't been much insight on this hand. I mean what doesn't he bet that he calls... and he's drawing to like nothing... Put him on 77 like some poster alluded to... he's not checking that on both streets and if he did he's drawing to nothin... why not give him a chance to hang himself. I understand the, he's on the button limpin argument and I think that's the most insightful thing in this hand, but I am taking that into consideration, and don't think that's enough of a reason to deviate from my line. Again, I never claim to be right, but like to be proven wrong before I admit I'm incorrect.

Just to add, I think leading this flop is gross... I reserve doing that for only the most aggressive players...

[Apathy]

[ QUOTE ]


Just to add, I think leading this flop is gross... I reserve doing that for only the most aggressive players...

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you may have that backwards.

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Just to add, I think leading this flop is gross... I reserve doing that for only the most aggressive players...

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you may have that backwards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. I meant the other way.

[ QUOTE ]
My thought process throughout the hand is what is he calling with that he doesn't bet ... Bet the turn, bet the river... why?

[/ QUOTE ]


I dunno about this not calling what he won't bet with stuff. If he's a fish who button limped for no good reason then there's all kinds of crap he could have that he'll call a smallish suckin bet on the turn with. A few chips more you if he calls and if he hits the river you might stack him. If he folds the turn then he probably has no hand at and you wouldn't make anything anyway. Bet small on the turn.

[FlyWf]

What's with this "hasn't been much insight" crap? Jeez. How insightful do you find: 'I feel like there wasn't much good poker in the OP'?
I think we can all do a little better than that.

You aren't giving him a chance to hang himself, you're giving him a chance to see a free showdown. Bet the turn weakly and maybe he'll make a silly passive call or maybe he'll see it as a bluff and raise. Or maybe he folds. Him folding is a lot like seeing showdown, except you never lose when he folds.

Also, if you need to be "proven" wrong then you are claiming to be right. You're putting the burden on the forum to convince you your line was wrong, I'd say the burden is on you to convince us that checking the river is a good line.

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Just to add, I think leading this flop is gross... I reserve doing that for only the most aggressive players...

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you may have that backwards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. I meant the other way.

[/ QUOTE ]

really? I thought you meant you reserve it for the most agressive players, those who will routinely bluff-raise. made sense to me...

[bigt439]

I wrote that post when I was torched, so I have no idea what I meant. But given this situation, I definitely didn't mean what I typed. I understand your thinking and think it makes sense if we were deeper.