I love variance.

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Full ring game. Blinds are loose. The whole damn table is fishy. 5 players limp to me. I'm on the button holding

A /images/graemlins/heart.gif3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif. I raise.

Anybody else do the same thing?

[benkath1]

yes, but I'm starting to doubt the value of it.

[Jaran]

Depends...Have I been raising pretty tight before this and showing down the goods? If so, then yeah. If I've been getting out of line a bit, and have been caught at it, then prolly not (but if I've been getting out of line, then I might just raise without thinking)

-Jaran

Lots.

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Depends...Have I been raising pretty tight before this and showing down the goods? If so, then yeah. If I've been getting out of line a bit, and have been caught at it, then prolly not (but if I've been getting out of line, then I might just raise without thinking)

-Jaran

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Then you're basing your decision on perceived table image rather than possible +EV play? My question is, is this play profitable in the long term against this type of table?

[Jaran]

I think it's just slightly +EV, and thus if my image is such that I can't steal the occasional pot when I miss, then I'm less apt to make the play.

-Jaran

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I think it's just slightly +EV, and thus if my image is such that I can't steal the occasional pot when I miss, then I'm less apt to make the play.

-Jaran

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IMO. The money comes from the fish hanging in too long on the flops that favour your hand greatly.
It's the same with raising small pairs in the same position.

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I think it's just slightly +EV, and thus if my image is such that I can't steal the occasional pot when I miss, then I'm less apt to make the play.

-Jaran

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IMO. The money comes from the fish hanging in too long on the flops that favour your hand greatly.
It's the same with raising small pairs in the same position.

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Yeah, I just can't ever see us stealing a pot when it's six or seven players to the flop.

[Jaran]

Agree with the pp's, as postflop play at this level w/pp's is usually pretty simple. With a hand like A3s, there's a good chance of getting into a sticky situation against people who love to limp any A. Are you checking through a flop like A94 rainbow when it's checked to you? What's your play if you bet and are called (I know that there are too many variables to truly give a plan here)? I don't hate the raise in the least bit. For me, I would just like a little bit extra here.

-Jaran

Grunch.

No. I call, trying to draw to the nut flush. (Or I limp/3-bet /images/graemlins/crazy.gif /images/graemlins/laugh.gif). I don't put much value in the Ace because every fish who holds one will call and probably have you outkicked.

We're contributing 12.5% of the pot and are only 6% to hit the flush by the river. I don't think we can value raise here because on flush value alone. I wait for the flop, if I'm 4 flushed I jam the pot for value. I'll also stick around for the turn with a pair and backdoor.

[milesdyson]

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We're contributing 12.5% of the pot and are only 6% to hit the flush by the river. I don't think we can value raise here because on flush value alone. I wait for the flop, if I'm 4 flushed I jam the pot for value. I'll also stick around for the turn with a pair and backdoor.

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what about 245 flops, 33x flops, A3x flops, AAA/333 flops, and simply Axx flops?

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We're contributing 12.5% of the pot and are only 6% to hit the flush by the river. I don't think we can value raise here because on flush value alone. I wait for the flop, if I'm 4 flushed I jam the pot for value. I'll also stick around for the turn with a pair and backdoor.

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How about this? A fair share of a seven way pot is around about 14.3%. Axs will win more than this. Izmet Fekali ran this hand in this situation 100,000 times using turbo sims. Axs won 20.4% of the pots. So not raising in this situation costs you money.
The other nice thing about this play is that players who know a little bit but not a lot will instantly classify you as a maniac. Hello action.

I was using 8 players since you said both blinds were loose. 5 limpers + 2 blinds + you = 8 players.

Responding to the other post, the wheel is less than 1% as are the 33x etc flops. All together they might make up a few points.

You're building the pot which might encourage others to stick around while you make your hand. You'll certainly be able to raise for value if you pick up a 4 flush on the flop. With this many people and the pot that big, you might be able to raise for value on the turn even if you miss.

I think this is one of those situations that Ed would say doesn't really matter that much in the long run.

[Shillx]

Meh I don't really like it. Against really bad players I would just call here. I would consider a raise against somewhat bad players, but it is close IMO. The thing against really bad players is that they will call with garbage no matter how much is in the pot. This play makes more sense when you will get significantly more action when you flop a strong hand or draw. The reason why I'm kinda meh on it anyways is that something like JT /images/graemlins/heart.gif (an auto raise against somewhat poor players) will flop a strong draw more often then A3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif. Even raising something like JTs loses appeal when people will call regardless of what they have. The main reason to raise in these spots is to tie people to the pot when you flop someting (and you have a hand that will hit a lot of flops, say 20-25%, fairly hard).

Brad

[SCfuji]

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The thing against really bad players is that they will call with garbage no matter how much is in the pot.

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you raised to make the others stay in (due to pot size) when you flop big. the players you describe only need two cards to continue so just limp along.

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We're contributing 12.5% of the pot and are only 6% to hit the flush by the river. I don't think we can value raise here because on flush value alone. I wait for the flop, if I'm 4 flushed I jam the pot for value. I'll also stick around for the turn with a pair and backdoor.

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How about this? A fair share of a seven way pot is around about 14.3%. Axs will win more than this. Izmet Fekali ran this hand in this situation 100,000 times using turbo sims. Axs won 20.4% of the pots. So not raising in this situation costs you money.
The other nice thing about this play is that players who know a little bit but not a lot will instantly classify you as a maniac. Hello action.

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I get more action then I want in the games that I play in.

I also think that raising in this spot promotes tilt. My own tilt not the tables. You're getting good odds to just limp along, might as well take them IMO.