gimme a line... 10/25

[durrrr]

Villain is decent, not much more info than that on him (havent seen any big non-standard hands w/ him involved).

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $25 BB (4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

UTG ($779)
Button ($3359)
SB ($3438.50)
Hero ($5319)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $85</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $60.

Flop: ($180) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $180</font>, Button calls $180.

Turn: ($540) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $375</font>, Hero calls $375.

River: ($1290) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero?

[FoxwoodsFiend]

I don't bet this flop-check/call the flop and lead the turn. The river is a clear block/bet then call a raise.

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't bet this flop-check/call the flop and lead the turn. The river is a clear block/bet then call a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you notice hero has straight flush?

Or is your proposed block/bet an attempt to induce opponent to raise?

[greg nice]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The river is a clear block/bet then call a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or is your proposed block/bet an attempt to induce opponent to raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

of course it is. why else would you call a raise after you block bet? you wouldnt, unless you were faking a block

[FoxwoodsFiend]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't bet this flop-check/call the flop and lead the turn. The river is a clear block/bet then call a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you notice hero has straight flush?

Or is your proposed block/bet an attempt to induce opponent to raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I noticed the straight flush. It is, however, the sucker end. So the block bet serves many purposes-when hero is ahead it probably doesn't lose much value over a big bet as the board is scary. Also, it induces a bluff which can reasonably be called. If hero bets pot and gets raised big then he is in a much more uncomfortable spot.
Obviously, this means that when hero is behind he loses much less than if he had bet big. I know he has a straight flush, but agasint good opponents who aren't getting out of line I don't like jamming the pot with the sucker end of a straight flush when the board is 4 in a row of a suit as raising the ace of hearts here would indicate a severe lack of fundamentals on villain's part.

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't bet this flop-check/call the flop and lead the turn. The river is a clear block/bet then call a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you notice hero has straight flush?

Or is your proposed block/bet an attempt to induce opponent to raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I noticed the straight flush. It is, however, the sucker end. So the block bet serves many purposes-when hero is ahead it probably doesn't lose much value over a big bet as the board is scary. Also, it induces a bluff which can reasonably be called. If hero bets pot and gets raised big then he is in a much more uncomfortable spot.
Obviously, this means that when hero is behind he loses much less than if he had bet big. I know he has a straight flush, but agasint good opponents who aren't getting out of line I don't like jamming the pot with the sucker end of a straight flush when the board is 4 in a row of a suit as raising the ace of hearts here would indicate a severe lack of fundamentals on villain's part.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just checking. I agree with your analysis of the board and the river.

A good bet size would be something like 400, then, you think?

[FoxwoodsFiend]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't bet this flop-check/call the flop and lead the turn. The river is a clear block/bet then call a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you notice hero has straight flush?


Or is your proposed block/bet an attempt to induce opponent to raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I noticed the straight flush. It is, however, the sucker end. So the block bet serves many purposes-when hero is ahead it probably doesn't lose much value over a big bet as the board is scary. Also, it induces a bluff which can reasonably be called. If hero bets pot and gets raised big then he is in a much more uncomfortable spot.
Obviously, this means that when hero is behind he loses much less than if he had bet big. I know he has a straight flush, but agasint good opponents who aren't getting out of line I don't like jamming the pot with the sucker end of a straight flush when the board is 4 in a row of a suit as raising the ace of hearts here would indicate a severe lack of fundamentals on villain's part.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just checking. I agree with your analysis of the board and the river.

A good bet size would be something like 400, then, you think?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, 400 seems about right.

[captZEEbo1]

I'm not sure what your opponent plays on (if he'd value bet a weak heart or bluff a heart), but I wouldn't mind a pot c/r on river.

[durrrr]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't bet this flop-check/call the flop and lead the turn. The river is a clear block/bet then call a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

flop i rarely bet... this was one of the rarely times. If i bet 400 and he pot raises its only 300 or so short of him pushing. I do like this line... if it was anywhere but UB. On UB people like to click the pot button- so i was confused about what to do. I led for a little more (~900), and villain raised allin at which point i donked off my stack to KQh. Still not sure what the best line is. c/c seems like itd give up a lot of value, but i cant see much calling a c/r that i beat.

[FoxwoodsFiend]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't bet this flop-check/call the flop and lead the turn. The river is a clear block/bet then call a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

flop i rarely bet... this was one of the rarely times. If i bet 400 and he pot raises its only 300 or so short of him pushing. I do like this line... if it was anywhere but UB. On UB people like to click the pot button- so i was confused about what to do. I led for a little more (~900), and villain raised allin at which point i donked off my stack to KQh. Still not sure what the best line is. c/c seems like itd give up a lot of value, but i cant see much calling a c/r that i beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Given that you think he's going to pot it if he does raise, I think checking is clearly better than betting if you're not folding to a raise AND you assume villain isn't going to raise you with just the A /images/graemlins/heart.gif

The times he has the ace you might lose out on the 900 you were planning on betting, but that's made up for by the fact that you don't lose your stack when he has the Q. You only lose what he bets, if even that because I don't think your hand can stand a pot-sized bet.

[durrrr]

foxwoods your saying you fold to a PSB? UB 10/25 Im extremely happy to call a PSB here- and i'd say im good way more than 50% of the time... however most of his hands imo are bluffs and will fold if i raise- probably making a c/r allin unprofitable i dunno tho. Also i think it is much more likely that villain has the A /images/graemlins/heart.gif than the Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif. Not many hands w/ the Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif call on the flop.

[kagame]

hey call me crazy, but i like value betting with the second nuts

theres no reason you cant fold this for your stack if it becomes clear youre beat

that aside, this line is terrible, either fold preflop or check to pick off a bluff on the flop, i dont like your turn chip spewing either, what exactly are you putting your opponent on

if you dont bet the river here i wont like a single street

[FoxwoodsFiend]

[ QUOTE ]
foxwoods your saying you fold to a PSB? UB 10/25 Im extremely happy to call a PSB here- and i'd say im good way more than 50% of the time... however most of his hands imo are bluffs and will fold if i raise- probably making a c/r allin unprofitable i dunno tho. Also i think it is much more likely that villain has the A /images/graemlins/heart.gif than the Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif. Not many hands w/ the Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif call on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I suppose I probably call the pot-sized bet, but I'm not positive that it's the correct play. I guess I'm too used to the Party 10/20 where most regulars are such rocks that the A /images/graemlins/heart.gif here would often bet less than pot, fearing the 7 or the Q