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11-26-2005, 05:51 AM
Whats a better line to take with this hand? Should I have folded on the river. Realizing that with two other players still in the hand; one must have a 10,7 or 10s for the higher fullhouse?


Omaha Hi $0.25-$0.25 PL (real money), hand #1,516,060,229
Table Santa Cruz, 25 Nov 2005 09:47 PM



View Previous hand for this table.



Seat 1: sksorion67 ($12.15 in chips)
Seat 2: kruk01 ($79.30 in chips)
Seat 3: Dr. Quick ($24.25 in chips)
Seat 4: Gus_Gomez ($24.75 in chips)
Seat 5: Detox05 ($24.25 in chips)
Seat 6: tbaer911 ($17.75 in chips)
Seat 7: Ameliasuncle ($11.90 in chips)
Seat 8: alcoop ($33.90 in chips)
Seat 9: d mayor [8C,9D,5C,7D] ($35.90 in chips)
Seat 10: NYcharlie33 ($3 in chips)



ANTES/BLINDS
sksorion67 posts blind ($0.25), kruk01 posts blind ($0.25).

PRE-FLOP
Dr. Quick calls $0.25, Gus_Gomez calls $0.25, Detox05 calls $0.25, tbaer911 calls $0.25, Ameliasuncle calls $0.25, alcoop folds, d mayor calls $0.25, NYcharlie33 folds, sksorion67 checks, kruk01 checks.

FLOP [board cards 7S,7C,10S ]
sksorion67 checks, kruk01 checks, Dr. Quick bets $0.50, Gus_Gomez folds, Detox05 calls $0.50, tbaer911 folds, Ameliasuncle folds, d mayor calls $0.50, sksorion67 folds, kruk01 folds.

TURN [board cards 7S,7C,10S,9S ]
Dr. Quick checks, Detox05 bets $3.50, d mayor calls $3.50, Dr. Quick calls $3.50.

RIVER [board cards 7S,7C,10S,9S,KH ]
Dr. Quick checks, Detox05 bets $5, d mayor calls $5, Dr. Quick calls $5.

11-26-2005, 07:23 AM
It's hard to say at this level. Against decent players, three people interested in a paired flop = someone has TTxx. Against weak opponents you'll see people call to draw to the nut flush, straights, or over-pairs. Of course, that tiny $0.50 flop isn't going to scare many away. It's certainly not enough to scare off any str8-flush draws.

OK, 8 people saw this flop. Against that many opponents, your hand will stand up just under half the time, but it won;t do nearly as well against 2 opponents who like the flop and turn. But still, you're getting 3.8:1 odds on the river. However, there is not a single full house that you can beat, plus there's someone left to act after you, plus there's a real chance someone has TT, plus there are 2 possible straight flushes who would have stuck around for the turn, and that $5 river bet screams value bet. The best you can hope for is that he's testing the waters with 7A another 79 or the nut flush. With two other players in the pot it's unlikely I think.

All in all, I think the river is a fold against any decent opponent.

Filip
11-26-2005, 11:44 AM
Raise the flop to get more info and avoid having to guess on later streets.

11-26-2005, 02:09 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Raise the flop to get more info and avoid having to guess on later streets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. You really only have 2 options on the flop. Raise or fold. Calling gives you no information. Folding is really weak/tight and probably silly at these stakes. Against better players, it makes some sense as you have a hand that could be a winner, but will never be the nuts.

Anyways, bump it up to 2 or so on the flop and fold to any reraise, as you are basically drawing to one out against 10-10 and dead against 10-7 and finding out that you are up against those hands when it is still cheap is much better than calling down value bets until the river.

Raising has the added benefit of potentially making the river a much cheaper call down should you fill, since you may freeze your opponents into going for a check/raise on the turn.

11-26-2005, 08:37 PM
Thanks for all the advice! I agree that raising on the flop would have been the proper move. The turn brought me a fullhouse, what is my plan at this point? Fold if bet into? Will fold if raised! Villian 2 was slowplaying his tens!

I keep getting killed with trips that turn into the lower fullhouse. What is a good way to deal with this problem?

11-28-2005, 02:59 PM
Here are 2 hands that may be of use to you. In both instances, the Hero flops trips and loses. Neither hand is anything but mundane.


Hand 1) (PLO25)

UTG ($23.50)
UTG+1 ($45.80)
MP1 ($24.75)
MP2 ($21.85)
MP3 ($26.65)
Hero ($37)
Button ($19.30)
SB ($27.75)
BB ($33.40)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets $0.5</font>, Hero calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls $0.25, BB calls $0.25, MP1 calls $0.25.

Flop: ($2.50) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $2.5</font>, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 folds, MP3 calls $2.50.

Turn: ($7.50) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP3 checks, Hero checks.

River: ($7.50) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets $3</font>, Hero calls $3.

Final Pot: $13.50


Here, the Hero used his position well. He bet for information with position with a marginal hand that could be best. He correctly checked behind on the turn. After filling on the river, he made a crying call and was shown the nut full.

Even if he filled on the turn, checking behind would likely have been the best move as there isn't much that he can beat. The villian's flop call is either Q-Q-x-x or 2-x-x-x (possibly with a Q). The hero can likely only beat a naked two at this point and probably only if he fills.


Hand 2) (PLO50)

BB ($15.50)
UTG ($34.30)
UTG+1 ($101.30)
MP1 ($108.85)
MP2 ($48.50)
CO ($32)
Button ($47.50)
Hero ($63.30)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif. Hero posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG calls $0.50, UTG+1 calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Button calls $0.50, Hero checks, BB checks.

Flop: ($2) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $2.5</font>, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $10</font>, Hero calls $7.50.

Turn: ($22) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $22.5</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $44.50

Here, the Hero makes at least one mistake. The Hero is out of position and fires the flop to gain information. He is raised the pot by the button and opts to call. Unless the button is a complete maniac, this is a bad call. The button is representing 8-9 or 9-9, which means the Hero is at best 15% to win. Realistically, the Hero can only beat a bluff and is certainly getting incorrect odds to call the pot-sized bet. At least he didn't extend his foolish play and gave up on the turn.

Basically, underfulls are a pain to play. While they can sometimes be shown down to win a pot, they should be treated as the non-nuts that they are. There is no harm in playing these hands carefully, especially in the low-limit games where weak/tight nut-peddling is certain to be profitable and donks will call off their stacks with very tenuous holdings.