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krishanleong

11-26-2005, 12:02 AM

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. UTG posts a blind of $25.
UTG (poster) checks, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3.66 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, UTG folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.83 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (5.83 BB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero raises

I just wanted to have the first thread. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Krishan

Congrats to Josh and Schneids!! Hopefully not too many of my threads get locked.

Surfbullet

11-26-2005, 12:05 AM

nh. I 3bet the flop if villain is capable of folding some pairs(which is rare.)

You have the first non-mod post. I have the first mod post! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Surf

The Truth

11-26-2005, 12:05 AM

first response.

standard.

The Truth

11-26-2005, 12:05 AM

krishanleong

11-26-2005, 12:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
nh. I 3bet the flop if villain is capable of folding some pairs(which is rare.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that's the rub. Not many people will get involved with air in a small pot like this. I think he is overwhelmingly holding a pair that is going to showdown. That is also why I'm comfortable with the river cr.

Krishan

wdcbooks

11-26-2005, 12:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
nh. I 3bet the flop if villain is capable of folding some pairs(which is rare.)

You have the first non-mod post. I have the first mod post! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Surf

[/ QUOTE ]

I three bet the flop regardless of his ability to fold a pair. I just love any pair and a flush draw. Nicely played and way to get the first post in.

Spicymoose

11-26-2005, 12:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. UTG posts a blind of $25.
UTG (poster) checks, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3.66 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, UTG folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.83 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (5.83 BB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero raises

I just wanted to have the first thread. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Krishan

Congrats to Josh and Schneids!! Hopefully not too many of my threads get locked.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does everyone check raise this river as standard? Do you ever worry that is going to be checked behind? If we hit our flush, we definetly lead, no?

Surfbullet

11-26-2005, 12:20 AM

I would definitely lead with a flush. The c/r is nice b/c the 4straight protects us from being 3bet by worse hands so it's an easy fold to a 3bet (spicyf-style). As krishan noted earlier, villain has a pair here an overwhelming amount of the time and we want to get the most value out of it.

Surf

Spicymoose

11-26-2005, 12:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I would definitely lead with a flush. The c/r is nice b/c the 4straight protects us from being 3bet by worse hands so it's an easy fold to a 3bet (spicyf-style). As krishan noted earlier, villain has a pair here an overwhelming amount of the time and we want to get the most value out of it.

Surf

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunnp. Couldn't he easily have an 8, 4, or PP, and scared that there are now 3 overcards that are decently likely for people to hold, and check behind the river? I guess this is a more agressive game then I am used to, and people value bet more?

TStoneMBD

11-26-2005, 12:46 AM

well played. dont 3bet the flop

Nikla

11-26-2005, 12:53 AM

I would rather lead river.

TheMetetron

11-26-2005, 02:07 AM

The river check/raise looked good at first and I origianlly liked it, but I think I've got to go with Nikla here. I really would just rather lead for a host of reasons, mostly I think we get the same number of bets (or more) in when ahead, less/equal when behind, and we always get to see a showdown which I'd really like to do here.

Edit: If you take out the 4 straight, I think the check/raise actually becomes better as he won't fold so many hands to a c/r and he is more likely to value bet the river.

TStoneMBD

11-26-2005, 02:36 AM

im not a fan of the river lead. i dont think it does anything for you. villain will be betting a jack and will probably also be betting a ten. hell call a checkraise with a jack.

id rather checkcall than donk. hell be betting almost as many hands as he calls a donk with and when you donk youll often times be raised. i dont think you can safely fold to a raise either because a cc cc donk line screams raise me ill fold. although this is a very scary card so i think most players at this level would just call the river when they have showdown value, which this player should have the way hes played the hand.

id still prefer checkcalling over donking however, but checkraising looks best imo especially because its easy to fold to a 3bet.

TheMetetron

11-26-2005, 02:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
villain will be betting a jack and will probably also be betting a ten.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not as often as you think. He checks these a lot IMO, especially a ten.

[ QUOTE ]
hell call a checkraise with a jack.

[/ QUOTE ]

He shouldn't.

TStoneMBD

11-26-2005, 03:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
He shouldn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

what does this have to do with anything? :/

flawless_victory

11-26-2005, 03:23 AM

i cant possibly see u being a favorite if that river raise gets called.
sure, sometimes u will win, and he wont bluff threebet in this spot, so what?
i would lead the riv or possibly checkcall.

dave44

11-26-2005, 04:47 AM

I just lead the river here as well. No read on this guy so I feel like we can't rely on an unknown to be betting the weaker end of his range here on this river. Don't see you getting bluff-raised much here either, so folding to a raise shouldn't be a problem.

NLSoldier

11-26-2005, 08:13 AM

I like leading the river. Too many people puss out and dont value bet.

TheMetetron

11-26-2005, 10:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He shouldn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

what does this have to do with anything? :/

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me rephrase that, he won't often enough. It'd be a pretty horrendous call. If you play opposition that dumb, more power to you.

Schneids

11-26-2005, 11:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Too many people puss out and dont value bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think if I were villain I would need at least a strong jack to bet this river or maybe even two pair. I hope you're trying to do some hand reading when it gets to you last to act on river in pots and aren't just throwing chips in with midpair because he hasn't done anything to tell you midpair isn't winning.

Trix

11-26-2005, 11:31 AM

I´m betting the river too and expect to get called by alot of hands that can beat a bluff (XdXd), but would check behind as they cant expect to get called light on this board and may get CRed by a 9 or a bluff.

NLSoldier

11-26-2005, 01:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Too many people puss out and dont value bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think if I were villain I would need at least a strong jack to bet this river or maybe even two pair. I hope you're trying to do some hand reading when it gets to you last to act on river in pots and aren't just throwing chips in with midpair because he hasn't done anything to tell you midpair isn't winning.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, thats exactly what I used to do, too bad you didnt point that out a few months ago /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Lmn55d

11-26-2005, 01:58 PM

I think you are missing a ton of value by checking. An average villain at that level is checking through that river with a huge percentage of his range. These guys are not good value betters in spots where any one card makes a straight. They will be very scared and "the pot is good size already" so they will check everything except a good queen imo. Maybe even 2 pair sometimes, but of course thats good for you. Furthermore some guys will fold a lot of the hands they bet there to your checkraise. Some will even raise your river donk as a bluff.

Bet it.

krishanleong

11-26-2005, 02:02 PM

I agree I should have bet.

Krishan

Surfbullet

11-26-2005, 02:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I agree I should have bet.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I have been convinced as well.

Surf