Experiences with Fasting

[theBruiser500]

People fast for a lot of reasons, before there was a thread on here about fasting for reasons of health and John Cole made some interesting and controversial posts about the benefits of fasting along those lines, "cleansing" the body. Fasting is also encouraged by relgions though for a variety of reasons, clearing the mind, repetence and celebration, a way of enjoying eating, sense of history, to produce a trancelike state, are just some reasons listed by book "Hunger" the religions Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Morons, Christians, Muslims and Taoists and fast on some days.

I have only fasted involuntarily when hiking and did not pack enough food. All I was thinking about then was food, imaginging every kind of my favorite food and how great it would taste if I was eating it right then. It didn't feel like my mind was really clear. The meals after not eating for a while tasted much better and for that reason I like to go a little longer then I naturally would sometimes, before eating.

Since all religions have fasts, there are probably a lot of people who have done it. Could some of you share your experiences with fasting please.

[theBruiser500]

Here is a story, a Taoist story which are always good.

When I am going to makea bell stand, I never let it wear out my energy. I always fast in order to still my mind. When I have fasted for three days, I no longer have any thought of congradulations or rewards, of titles or stipends. When I have fasted for five days, I no longer have any thought of praise or blame, of skill or clumsiness. And when I have fasted for seven days I am so still that I forget I have four limbs and a form and body. By that time, the ruler and his court no longer exist for me. My skill is concentrated and all outside distractions fade away. After that I go into the mountain forest and examine the Heavenly nature of trees. If I find one of superatlive form, and I can see a bell stand there, I put my hand to the job of carving; if not, I let it go. This way I am simply matching up Heaven with Heaven.

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
People fast for a lot of reasons, before there was a thread on here about fasting for reasons of health and John Cole made some interesting and controversial posts about the benefits of fasting along those lines, "cleansing" the body. Fasting is also encouraged by relgions though for a variety of reasons, clearing the mind, repetence and celebration, a way of enjoying eating, sense of history, to produce a trancelike state, are just some reasons listed by book "Hunger" the religions Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Morons, Christians, Muslims and Taoists and fast on some days.

I have only fasted involuntarily when hiking and did not pack enough food. All I was thinking about then was food, imaginging every kind of my favorite food and how great it would taste if I was eating it right then. It didn't feel like my mind was really clear. The meals after not eating for a while tasted much better and for that reason I like to go a little longer then I naturally would sometimes, before eating.

Since all religions have fasts, there are probably a lot of people who have done it. Could some of you share your experiences with fasting please.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do it once a year over a 3 day period. The first day is fruits, vegetables,soup, and water. On day 2 it is just fruits and water. And on day 3 (sometimes an extra half day explained below) I only have water.

The reason I sometimes take an extra half day is because I usually by a body cleansing product. Sometimes it takes a while before all the poop is out.

By the 3rd day it is such a rush. I don't know how to explain it, because it is a high, but unlike any other high. So, the main reason I do it is because I want to cleanse my body.

I was raised Jewish (not practicing anymore) and would fast for Yom Kippur, but I was like 8, and hated it. I just felt like I had to. So, I don't do it for religious reasons now, but for "spiritual" (yeah, I know that sounds corny). Basically you are putting yourself through a bit of pain. It also humbles you, because so many people don't have any food. Also, I think it teaches you a Buddhist concept I read by the Dalai Lama about how pleasure is just the ending of pain or longing. So, for example, if you are hungry, it isn't that the food itself is making you feel good, but that you are getting rid of pain. Same can be said for the alcoholic, having sex, etc...

Anyways, talk to a Dr. first. Sometimes I can't go the whole time without eating because I have some anxiety problems and low sugar doesn't help, so I will have a few fruits for sugar. But, on an empty stomach fruit goes through you very quickly. And the sugars almost hit as quickly as nicotine or cocaine (maybe that is why it is so easy for me to fast, I am on coke the whole time /images/graemlins/smile.gif ). I hope this helps a bit.

craig

p.s. There have been some studies that people that fast 3 times a year are healthier; as long as they are cleansing their bodies as well. You can get the cleanser at Whole Foods. I would recommend them because it is Vegan and all natural (and not just because I am vegan). If the cleanser has dairy in it, it will slow the process down.

[jackdaniels]

tl;dr but...

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...by book "Hunger" the religions Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Morons , Christians,...

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Yes....

[hoyaboy1]

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tl;dr but...


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... and you read Atlas Shrugged?

[DcifrThs]

the most i have fasted for was 2 days. no food. just water to try and cleanse my body after college a bit.

other than that, i fast 1 time / year on yom kippur (the jewish holiday for the repentance after the new year). after years of doing it the fast isn't that hard.

basically, you go through phases of hunger and a different feeling than hunger but its a result of the hunger and it gets wierder and worse the longer you fast.

during my two day fast (which i was allowed to drink water whereas on yom kippur NOTHING goes in your mouth) by the end of the 2nd day i was going to the bathroom pretty frequently...like a kid w/ no bladder control b/c the water was going through me so quick. felt kinda good though.

also, if you're going to do that, DO NOT JUST EAT A TON OF FOOD TO END THE FAST! while that is the tradition for breaking the fast for yom kippur, its not a good idea to gorge yourself after fasting.

for the 2 day fast, i ate (too many) veggies (probably like over a lb) and fruits as well. IDEALLy, you should end the fast in the middle of a day and eat progressively more fresh food throughout the day. and dont eat before bed.

anyways, i think if one would fast for 2 days 4 times a year, they would be more "cleansed" but i have no medical evidence to back up this claim. just how i felt after the fast.

Barron

[jackdaniels]

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[ QUOTE ]
tl;dr but...


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... and you read Atlas Shrugged?

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How do you know? Have you been following me around?!?!?!

Kidding ofcourse. I gave up after the "Moron's" line. Had to post my reply and never got back to the thread. I PROMISE to read it later. <font color="white"> Maybe. </font>

[TheBlueMonster]

As a semi-sorta-kind of observant Jew there are a few fasts throughout the year I observe, two of which are 24 hour fasts. The one during the summer isn't as bad because you can drive and watch TV etc. which helps pass the time. Yom Kippur is really tough since you pretty much have to be in synagouge all day.
Basically whatever the reason you're fasting, try to keep yourself occupied and it won't be too horrible.

[tonypaladino]

A few years ago I fasted on Good Friday, even though I am not religious, I wanted to do it to see if I could. I felt really good the next day and lost weight afterwards because I couln't eat as much as normal the next few days.

[JJNJustin]

Fasting cleanses the body by allowing toxings from various tissue cells to be released into the intestine where it combines with other solid waste and is excreted out as feces.

Fasting for too long a period of time can cause too many toxins to be released, and actually cause poisoning.

Normally, I prefer to conclude my evening meal at least 5-6 hours before sleeping. Hence, my body undergoes a period of fasting that lasts from sometime after dinner until the next morning. This is long enough to cleanse the body without getting sick. Also, my mind doesnt become obsessed with hunger, as I am not doing this in the day time.

Waiting a long time to eat makes it more enjoyable, yet can often lead to binging and feasting which adds undesirable calories to your daily intake. Yet, occasionally, this can be good for the spirit. This is why, on holidays and special celebrations, many people have large meals.

Eating a high fiber diet will help buffer toxins released into the intestine, and help keep the intestine free of toxins. Yogurt and other foods containing friendly bacteria will also help keep the intestine healthy.

The typical American diet is not high enough in vegetable fiber, and most Americans would do well to consider eating more vegetables and fruits. Some ethnic diets are much higher in vegetable fiber and lower in saturated fats and refined sugars. Specifically, Chinese and Indian utilize many vegetables in their dishes, and are extremely low in refined sugar. Although some dishes can be high in fat, if you are selective, you can avoid the ones that are.

Also, eating mushrooms and shellfish along with any meal can help reduce the amount of saturated fat absorbed by the gut. There is a specific compound present in these foods (called chetin) which chemically binds to the fat present in other foods and renders it less digestable, passing it through the intestine. This is probably why we often serve steak with mushrooms, and the chinese often eat shrimp with the head, feat, and shells.

live long and prosper
-J

[craig r]

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try to keep yourself occupied and it won't be too horrible.


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This makes no sense to me. Like I said, I was brought up Jewish and have a fairly good understanding of it, but Yom Kippur is the day of repetance. Why would you not want to think about your suffering/hunger? That seems to defeat the purpose. And this could easily lead into the Buddhist fasting ideas and principles (actually not just for fasting with Buddhism). By avoiding the pain, you are not experiencing the moment. You are not in the here and now. Which, as Buddhist will discuss, is one of the worst things. By, living in the past and thinking about the future you are not conscious of what is going on around you. Since pain is unavoidable, you need to experience that as well; you need to be conscious of all suffering (of all beings). One buddhist monk (Zen) says that when you leave a house, do not slam the door. Not because slamming the door is in and of itself wrong, but because by slamming it, you are not paying attention. Your mind is somewhere else.

Also, I am not saying I believe all of this, I just understand it. So, I don't know why you would fast if you weren't trying to be conscious of the pain. Which is what I think you are suppossed to be doing on Yom Kippur.

craig.

p.s.Jews make up about 2% of the population of the U.S., but a large majority of American born Buddhists/converts are Jewish. I guess because Judaism is more conducive to Buddhism, since 1) they are both eastern religions at heart 2) very focused on the hear and now 3) as general rules compassion for all beings is held at a very high regard (I am not saying all Jews are compassionate, good people, etc..but I am not saying bad about any Jews becasue I don't want to be kicked out of the Zionist Occupied Government (ZOG). I am just about to be made a producer of some TV show. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[gamblore99]

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try to keep yourself occupied and it won't be too horrible.


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This makes no sense to me. Like I said, I was brought up Jewish and have a fairly good understanding of it, but Yom Kippur is the day of repetance. Why would you not want to think about your suffering/hunger? That seems to defeat the purpose.

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The purpose of Yom Kippuer is to cleanse the body in an effort to be more pure, and closer to god. Not to endulge in pain. At least that is what the majority of the orthodox jews say.

My personal experience for fasting on Yom Kippur is that it sucks. I hate it. And from pictures of you Bruiser, you need to be eating more, not less. And also going to the gym wouldn't hurt.

[Voltron87]

does anyone here have a scientific reason for saying "oh dude it will totally cleanse you body of the negative energy you built up while working for the man"? im not saying its not true, the people saying it just sound half baked.

[gamblore99]

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I was raised Jewish (not practicing anymore) and would fast for Yom Kippur, but I was like 8, and hated it

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I don't mean to nit pick, but children aren't supposed to fast on yom kippur. Being 8 and fasting would be horrible. That sounds like child abuse.

[craig r]

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try to keep yourself occupied and it won't be too horrible.


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This makes no sense to me. Like I said, I was brought up Jewish and have a fairly good understanding of it, but Yom Kippur is the day of repetance. Why would you not want to think about your suffering/hunger? That seems to defeat the purpose.

[/ QUOTE ]

The purpose of Yom Kippuer is to cleanse the body in an effort to be more pure, and closer to god. Not to endulge in pain. At least that is what the majority of the orthodox jews say.

My personal experience for fasting on Yom Kippur is that it sucks. I hate it. And from pictures of you Bruiser, you need to be eating more, not less. And also going to the gym wouldn't hurt.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was not raised Orthodox, but reformed. I can't imagine we were more strict. But, since it is the "Day of Atonement" aren't we suppossed to suffer a bit, not because suffering is good, but because this suffering makes us conscious of our "sins" (I use "our" loosely)? And I don't understand why you do it if you hate it. I would think being closer to God would be a good thing. And you don't have to answer here, that is your own personal thing (but if you wnat to PM me that is cool). But, I know when I fast, I love it. And not just for the health reasons (also, like i said, sometimes I have to eat an orange or two, because of anxiety).

You are right that we are suppossed to be close to God on Yom Kippur (like every other day; once again I use "we" loosely, because I don't know my thoughts on this), but even more importantly we are suppossed to ask for forgiveness from those we may have harmed in anyway and forgive all debts (once again, more similar to Buddhism). Hmmmm..that makes me wonderif the owner of my Visa Card is Jewish. Won't he have to drop that debt?

craig

[calmasahinducow]

I wrestled in high school and fasted pretty much from every day from Monday to Friday night during season and also didn't drink Thursday or Friday. Fasting slows the metabolism down to a crawl. I pretty much hated my life because I couldn't eat and could barely drink because I had to lose 15 lbs. a week. In one case, I lost 18 lbs. in a day but this was mostly due to diarhettics, plastic suits, and a sauna. There's probably some permanent damage done to my digestive system or other internal organs because of what I did; I don't think it was worth it looking back on it. There's nothing enlightening or cleansing about it. It just sucks. If anyone has any other questions, I'll answer them.

[Senor Cardgage]

Change that "a" to an "i" and these posts take on a horrifyingly different tone.

That's what I honestly thought the thread was about on a moment's glance. However, I've never fasted, so that pretty much ends my usefulness here.

[sfer]

A friend of mine does this about once a year. The fasts vary from a couple of days to ten days, and she drinks this weird maple syrup/water/cayenne mixture during it.

It's funny because she does it for the body cleaning reasons but she's very likely an alcoholic.

[tolbiny]

High school wrestling.

[MMMMMM]

Just to clarify, fasting is not a Buddhist practice, and various Zen masters have specifically advised against it. Also, Buddha Sakyamuni himself rejected fasting and asceticism after trying them both thoroughly (as well as rejecting a life of luxury and indulgence, passing on both in favor of following "the Middle Way").

A brief "cleansing diet" of 2-3 days can be a good thing (you can look up details of "cleansing diet" on the web), as far as removing toxins from the system and accumulated garbages from the bowels, but fasting itself is actually physically harmful.

And yes, I've fasted a few times, but that was before I learned that the same benefits can be obtained through a cleansing diet, without the associated harms; and before I read the words of a Zen master I hold in great respect.

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
Just to clarify, fasting is not a Buddhist practice, and various Zen masters have specifically advised against it. Also, Buddha Sakyamuni himself rejected fasting and asceticism after trying them both thoroughly (as well as rejecting a life of luxury and indulgence, passing on both in favor of following "the Middle Way").

A brief "cleansing diet" of 2-3 days can be a good thing (you can look up details of "cleansing diet" on the web), as far as removing toxins from the system and accumulated garbages from the bowels, but fasting itself is actually physically harmful.

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What about the tapering off method I had mentioned and then just juice for one day? I can't see how cleansing your colon would be bad.

craig

[MMMMMM]

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What about the tapering off method I had mentioned and then just juice for one day? I can't see how cleansing your colon would be bad.


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Sure, the tapering-off method you suggested sounds fine. It is the going with no nourishment at all that does your body harm. Also, it is wise to work in at least some protein during a cleansing period (a small quantity of beans may be sufficient), as your body cannibalizes its own muscle tissue when you have zero protein intake over an extended period.

[craig r]

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What about the tapering off method I had mentioned and then just juice for one day? I can't see how cleansing your colon would be bad.


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Sure, the tapering-off method you suggested sounds fine. It is the going with no nourishment at all that does your body harm. Also it is wise to work in at least a tiny bit of protein during a cleansing period (a small quantity of beans are sufficient), as your body cannibalizes both fat and muscle tissue when you have zero protein intake over an extended period.

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I agree, I think with the work schedule and what not, it is too tough on the body to not eat anything all day. I am sure I am not the only one that gets panicky and anxious (if i don't eat every 6 hours i will get very nervous and after 12 i better have some xanex). Beans would be good (fresh, no salt) because they would help with the cleansing process and they are the magical fruit.

craig

[tbach24]

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High school wrestling.

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I'm working on 153-145 for the next 8 days /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[MMMMMM]

Yes, beans are really great for you.

Nothing wrong with cannibalizing your own fat on a cleansing diet (unless maybe you're John Cole;-)), but destroying your own muscle by fasting is not good (although it does happen unavoidably, to some degree, when we sleep). Also, the brain functions better when it has some blood sugar to work with, which is another reason why total fasting is not good for you.

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, beans are really great for you.

Nothing wrong with cannibalizing your own fat on a cleansing diet (unless maybe you're John Cole;-)), but destroying your own muscle by fasting is not good (although it does happen unavoidably, to some degree, when we sleep). Also, the brain functions better when it has some blood sugar to work with, which is another reason why true fasting is not good for you.

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Well, that and there is the proverb (I don't know from where): eat when hungry, sleep when tired".

[MMMMMM]

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Well, that and there is the proverb (I don't know from where): eat when hungry, sleep when tired".


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Yeah ;-)

Just to clarify, my understanding is that very low-calorie cleansing diets (which could be considered a sort of near-fasting)can be quite good for you on occasion. It's just the total fasting that is damaging.

Also, there is considerable evidence that a very low-calorie diet prolongs life considerably (I really should follow my own advice;-) /images/graemlins/tongue.gif ). The very best and healthiest way is frequent small nourishments.

[craig r]

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Well, that and there is the proverb (I don't know from where): eat when hungry, sleep when tired".


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Yeah ;-)

Just to clarify, my understanding is that very low-calorie cleansing diets (which could be considered a sort of near-fasting)can be quite good for you on occasion. It's just the total fasting that is damaging.

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okay, what about this, don't eat one day, then the next day have a nice cocaine salad (minus the greens or any other vegetable), then lose a little more wait, more cocaine salad (once again, minus the vegetables). Oh man, I just created a new diet: Do I call it the Kate Moss or the Lindsay "Herbie" Lohan?

[Hamish McBagpipe]

I had a meal at about 6pm and am going to the casino in about 1/2 an hour. I won't eat until Saturday evening or later. I will have several bottles of water, a few diet cokes, a couple of coffee, and a pack of cigarettes. Do you consider this a fast?

I also wrestled in University. Living hell to make weight. Running around a gym with in a garbage bag is not fun. But my diet wasn't that bad because I did learn the nasty but extremely effective weight loss technique of barfing which I preferred compared to the widely used laxative route. The weight I wrestled was probably underweight for my size and muscle mass but it still beats being 20 pounds overweight which is what I'm working on now. Maybe a 3 day fast at the casino will take care of half of that.

[jokerthief]

First thing, "...some reasons listed by book "Hunger" the religions Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Morons , Christians, Muslims and Taoists and fast on some days." , I don't know if this is Freudian or hilarious. Well, either way, it's funny.

Secondly, I thought you told me that you did a fast? If what you told me was your camping experience, then you haven't really fasted. You can't just go without food and expect to gain any benefits from the experience. You have to utilise your time on self reflection and meditation. That is the point of it. Depriving yourself is supposed to open your consciousness to channels in your mind that are blocked or ignored. There are a thousand different philosophies on what fasting is and what it can do for you but nearly all of them have active participation in the fast as a prerequisite.

[whiskeytown]

I will say this - you get a nasty case of the runs after a day or so...

I found this out while taking a walk, so be careful where you go the first couple days - and be careful with the fruit juice - it can make it worse - /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I also had a depressive phase where I didn't eat for 4 days - until the 4th day I hardly noticed, but then my stomach started knotting up a tiny bit.

RB

[KaneKungFu123]

i think reading about this stuff before you do it is just going to put an idea of what you want it to be in your head before you do it, robbing you of the genuine experience. that is why i hate when people talk about calebrities or what some zen master said. just do your own thing, without expecations and see what comes of it.

ps: i love the toaist story.

[craig r]

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i think reading about this stuff before you do it is just going to put an idea of what you want it to be in your head before you do it, robbing you of the genuine experience. that is why i hate when people talk about calebrities or what some zen master said. just do your own thing, without expecations and see what comes of it.

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My understanding of Zen or Buddhism is that you cannot expect anything from any situation. Most things can't be gauged, because nothing is constant. I am not saying I believe this, but just letting you know that Zen has some of the same ideas you have.

craig

[jokerthief]

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that is why i hate when people talk about calebrities or what some zen master said.

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OK. I'm a little tipsy so please bear with me. I'm beginning to suspect that KKF is not an American who is living in Taiwan but Tawainese pretending to be an American living in Taiwan. Calebrities? You can't be serious. This isn't the first strange spelling error he has made. You either aren't a native english speaker, have an eighth grade education, or are prone to drink alchohol on the weekends in ridiculous quantities. I need to go make a tin foil hat. BRB.

[KaneKungFu123]

are you making fun of tawainesse people??? /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[jokerthief]

[ QUOTE ]
are you making fun of tawainesse people??? /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I'm calling you out with my conspiricy theory. I'm halfway through making my tinfoil hat btw.

[phil_ivey_fan]

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Here is a story, a Taoist story which are always good.

When I am going to makea bell stand, I never let it wear out my energy. I always fast in order to still my mind. When I have fasted for three days, I no longer have any thought of congradulations or rewards, of titles or stipends. When I have fasted for five days, I no longer have any thought of praise or blame, of skill or clumsiness. And when I have fasted for seven days I am so still that I forget I have four limbs and a form and body. By that time, the ruler and his court no longer exist for me. My skill is concentrated and all outside distractions fade away. After that I go into the mountain forest and examine the Heavenly nature of trees. If I find one of superatlive form, and I can see a bell stand there, I put my hand to the job of carving; if not, I let it go. This way I am simply matching up Heaven with Heaven.

[/ QUOTE ]


drugs are better because A) you don't have to wait 7 days to kick in and B) you don't have to starve yourself.

[theBruiser500]

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i think reading about this stuff before you do it is just going to put an idea of what you want it to be in your head before you do it, robbing you of the genuine experience. that is why i hate when people talk about calebrities or what some zen master said. just do your own thing, without expecations and see what comes of it.

ps: i love the toaist story.

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"My understanding of Zen or Buddhism is that you cannot expect anything from any situation. Most things can't be gauged, because nothing is constant. I am not saying I believe this, but just letting you know that Zen has some of the same ideas you have. "

maybe kane, interesting point. but i would interpet what craig wrote differently. the act of fasting will not mean much in itself, it will just make me hungry and upset. for it to mean anything i have to know why other people do it, what the ideas are behind it - to add this meaning on my own. and, even the act of fasting itself would not happen itself unless other people hadn't given me this idea. so if i'm going to follow their idea doesn't it make sense to know what their ideas behind it are?

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
i think reading about this stuff before you do it is just going to put an idea of what you want it to be in your head before you do it, robbing you of the genuine experience. that is why i hate when people talk about calebrities or what some zen master said. just do your own thing, without expecations and see what comes of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

well said

[MMMMMM]

Hi Bruiser,

the translation I have of that passage by Chuang Tsu is somewhat different, and does not reference fasting, but rather meditation.

I can't find it at the moment, but if you would like to read it, along with the most beautiful translation of Chuang Tsu (which happens to be my favorite Taoist literature), you might wish to pick up CHUANG TSU, Inner Chapters by Gia-Fu Feng and Jane English. It is very poetic, and the photographs in the book are simply phenomenal. The "inner chapters" of Chuang Tsu are those chapters which scholars agree were actually written by Chuang Tsu. Feng and English, at the time of writing, were involved in running The Stillpoint Foundation in Manitou Springs(?) Colorado, a Taoist foundation and retreat.

Since you like Taoist stories, the best stories I have come across are in a little out-of-print paperback by John Blofeld, titled THE SECRET AND SUBLIME, Taoist Mysteries And Magic. Very enjoyable reading, which chronicles his encounters amongst the Taoist hermitages in China, before, I believe, the Red takeover of the country. It is much more enjoyable reading than his later works, so if you can have a search done for it by a bookstore, or perhaps find it on eBay yourself, I am sure you will enjoy it. If you would like to be see inside remote mountain grottoes, to witness the Taoist Autumn Festival, to share green tea and talk with bearded Taoist sages, this book is for you.

In my teens, I developed a keen interest in Taoism and Buddhism, which has stayed with me throughout the years, so I can relate to that which you find interesting about these things (by the way, when I was in my teens and early 20's, my political views were far more towards "modern liberal", also, so you and I might actually have more in common that way you might guess, heh).

Another book you would enjoy is The Snow Leopard by Peter Matthiessen. You should be able to relate to this trek journal (with a great spiritual twist) especially well, after your own fascinating trip to Nepal.

[theBruiser500]

okay will check it out, thanks MMM.

[beset7]

I used to do a full water-only fast for 5 days once or twice a year.

Now I just do a juice fast, 3 days tops.