($27) Hand vs. bawcerelli

[durron597]

He pushed my SB last orbit, too.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

SB (t1405)
Hero (t2455)
UTG (t900)
MP (t5000)
CO (t1355)
Button (t2385)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to t1405</font>, Hero ???

[tigerite]

You know you should call. Just don't hate him too much when his Q4o sucks out on the river. Oh sorry, that was against me yesterday and not bawcarelli.

[jeffraider]

This seems like a pretty easy fold with the blinds this small.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
This seems like a pretty easy fold with the blinds this small.

[/ QUOTE ]

What range do you put him on?

[gumpzilla]

Even if you put him on any two, A3s against that range is only 58% equity. If you tighten up his range at all, A3 starts to suffer pretty badly. Winning and getting his chips places you comparably to the big stack, but doesn't put you in a position where you alone can run roughshod over the table. Losing puts you in an uncomfortable position. I think this is a fold.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
Even if you put him on any two, A3s against that range is only 58% equity. If you tighten up his range at all, A3 starts to suffer pretty badly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not until we get below the top 40% of hands. Plus I'm suited. Plus he only has 7xBB and we have the dead money from my BB.

[tigerite]

You need around 50% equity to make the call, so if he's pushing any two, you absolutely must call. I think even tight 2+2ers would be pushing a pretty wide range here, especially as he himself probably knows durron is 2+2. 40% seems about dead on the money for me in fact.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
Plus I'm suited.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that's what A3s means.

[ QUOTE ]

Plus he only has 7xBB and we have the dead money from my BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm aware of these issues as well. With several stacks substantially weaker than you at the moment though, you're in pretty good shape at the moment. Losing a bunch of chips severely hurts your equity, gaining a bunch of chips isn't going to give you a correspondingly high boost in equity. You haven't really done anything to convince me this is a call.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
You need around 50% equity to make the call, so if he's pushing any two, you absolutely must call.

[/ QUOTE ]

That low? That astonishes me. This is an ICM figure?

[tigerite]

Of course it's an ICM figure, what do you take me for /images/graemlins/grin.gif

If we assume you want a +0.4% edge.. then it's 49.8%.

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
He pushed my SB last orbit, too.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx (http://www.zerodivide.cx/converter)

SB (t1405)
Hero (t2455)
UTG (t900)
MP (t5000)
CO (t1355)
Button (t2385)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to t1405</font>, Hero ???

[/ QUOTE ]

The villain in this hand would have to be terrible for this to be a fold. Given that he is a 2+2er I think this is a very easy call. Play around with SNGPT.

[bawcerelli]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This seems like a pretty easy fold with the blinds this small.

[/ QUOTE ]

What range do you put him on?

[/ QUOTE ]

my range here is usually JJ+. i misclicked all in. so next time i will have JJ+ and you can easily fold. as far as your call goes, i was a little surprised by it, but i don't hate it. i probably wouldn't have made the call, but i'm weak tight when it comes to calling. and of course you were ahead of me preflop so you probably shouldn't second guess yourself.

[ QUOTE ]

my range here is usually JJ+. i misclicked all in.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol.

I'd fold here and I'm surprised it's close.

[pokerlaw]

As the SB here, I am pushing a lot of hands. A3s is 51.6% against the top 50% of hands, which is about where my range is.

Given the dead money in the blinds and the fact that elimniating a 2+2er (compared to an average $27er) is also a good thing, this is a quick call for me.

[ilya]

Clear call I think, it's a call if you're both using a GT equilibrium strategy.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]

my range here is usually JJ+. i misclicked all in. so next time i will have JJ+ and you can easily fold. as far as your call goes, i was a little surprised by it, but i don't hate it. i probably wouldn't have made the call, but i'm weak tight when it comes to calling. and of course you were ahead of me preflop so you probably shouldn't second guess yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually thought that you thought that I would be tight about calling and thus pushing with a wider range than you might otherwise, which means I should call wider.

[bawcerelli]

no, i knew you'd loosen your range up, but i still had to push with K7o IMO.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
no, i knew you'd loosen your range up, but i still had to push with K7o IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think that K7o is a required push, then I think I have to call with the A3s. Just sucked that after I doubled up again the KJo beat my ATo /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
no, i knew you'd loosen your range up, but i still had to push with K7o IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think that K7o is a required push, then I think I have to call with the A3s. Just sucked that after I doubled up again the KJo beat my ATo /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

just FYI, the GT-optimal balance is approx. 55% push / 25% call.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]

just FYI, the GT-optimal balance is approx. 55% push / 25% call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which means we both played it right. Nice suckout bawcerelli.

[bawcerelli]

you aint seen nothing yet. just ask fenef, the suckouts i've given him are like 2% of my ROI. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[bigt439]

This post seems really weird to me. This seems like an easy push with any two, and an easy call with A3s... This gets a little more complicated since you both know each other to be 2+2ers, but folding A3s seems ridiculous... and thinking about pushing K7o for more than two milliseconds seems even more ridiculous...

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
This post seems really weird to me. This seems like an easy push with any two, and an easy call with A3s... This gets a little more complicated since you both know each other to be 2+2ers, but folding A3s seems ridiculous... and thinking about pushing K7o for more than two milliseconds seems even more ridiculous...

[/ QUOTE ]

If BB is savvy, it's definitely not a push with any 2.

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This post seems really weird to me. This seems like an easy push with any two, and an easy call with A3s... This gets a little more complicated since you both know each other to be 2+2ers, but folding A3s seems ridiculous... and thinking about pushing K7o for more than two milliseconds seems even more ridiculous...

[/ QUOTE ]

If BB is savvy, it's definitely not a push with any 2.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I know and I kind of qualified that statement by saying that it changes since they're both 2+2ers... but against anyone else I think this is a push with any 2. I'm just trying to show that sb should be pushing a lot and bb should be calling a fair amount.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
This post seems really weird to me. This seems like an easy push with any two, and an easy call with A3s... This gets a little more complicated since you both know each other to be 2+2ers, but folding A3s seems ridiculous... and thinking about pushing K7o for more than two milliseconds seems even more ridiculous...

[/ QUOTE ]

He definitely knew it was me, if it wasn't for the avatar and username (which is the same), we had chatted at the table too.

Anyway, folding A3s is not ridiculous. It's a close decision no matter which side of the fence you're on.

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This post seems really weird to me. This seems like an easy push with any two, and an easy call with A3s... This gets a little more complicated since you both know each other to be 2+2ers, but folding A3s seems ridiculous... and thinking about pushing K7o for more than two milliseconds seems even more ridiculous...

[/ QUOTE ]

He definitely knew it was me, if it wasn't for the avatar and username (which is the same), we had chatted at the table too.

Anyway, folding A3s is not ridiculous. It's a close decision no matter which side of the fence you're on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well if he's pushing 22+,A2+,K5o+,K2s+,Q9o+,Q8s+,J9s+, then this is +0.2... I don't see how he can not push any of these hands... I see him pushing with waaaay more... Him pushing J9s with you calling 100% of hands is +0.5% so I don't see where the dilemma is... He just has to be so grossly tight for this to be a fold... So tight that I don't think you can make him that no matter what your calling range... Unless he's just way too tight, but I don't think he could be that bad.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]

Well if he's pushing 22+,A2+,K5o+,K2s+,Q9o+,Q8s+,J9s+, then this is +0.2... I don't see how he can not push any of these hands... I see him pushing with waaaay more... Him pushing J9s with you calling 100% of hands is +0.5% so I don't see where the dilemma is... He just has to be so grossly tight for this to be a fold... So tight that I don't think you can make him that no matter what your calling range... Unless he's just way too tight, but I don't think he could be that bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm in the call camp (I did call) but isn't +0.2% a close call? Some would argue it's a fold since you should fold small edges to reduce variance?

[bawcerelli]

i've haven't played too much with dur, but in general i play way tight, much much more than you're average sng'er (that is of course until bubble time). that's why i was a little surprised he called, but of course he knows he has to loosen up a bit against me.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
i've haven't played too much with dur, but in general i play way tight, much much more than you're average sng'er (that is of course until bubble time). that's why i was a little surprised he called, but of course he knows he has to loosen up a bit against me.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it wasn't for this fact I wouldn't have posted the hand.

[Melchiades]

I hope you yelled at him and called him a fish for calling with that garbage.

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Well if he's pushing 22+,A2+,K5o+,K2s+,Q9o+,Q8s+,J9s+, then this is +0.2... I don't see how he can not push any of these hands... I see him pushing with waaaay more... Him pushing J9s with you calling 100% of hands is +0.5% so I don't see where the dilemma is... He just has to be so grossly tight for this to be a fold... So tight that I don't think you can make him that no matter what your calling range... Unless he's just way too tight, but I don't think he could be that bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm in the call camp (I did call) but isn't +0.2% a close call? Some would argue it's a fold since you should fold small edges to reduce variance?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well it's a reasonably close call, but my point was that he should be pushing much more than that, so that you'd be getting much more than +0.2%. Just from the tone of this post it sounds like bawcerelli is way too tight and maybe that's why my replies are coming off as a bit too definitive. I don't know who played this wrong, but if he's not pushing enough to make this a call, he's playing very sub-optimally.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
I hope you yelled at him and called him a fish for calling with that garbage.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would he have? He sucked out on me.

[bawcerelli]

bigt you've almost got the complete picture. basically i'm playing way tight in the early parts of the game, getting involved with only strong hands. as the bubble comes up, i'm opening up and getting more aggressive. durron is put in a tough spot here, because he doesn't know if i'm pushing with a strong hand (that i usually have) or i'm opening up here and stealing his blind.

[Melchiades]

There is time to yell before he sees that he is sucking out. After he sucked out I hope you yelled at him for being a fish and pushing that garbage. It's the best of both worlds baby.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
bigt you've almost got the complete picture. basically i'm playing way tight in the early parts of the game, getting involved with only strong hands. as the bubble comes up, i'm opening up and getting more aggressive. durron is put in a tough spot here, because he doesn't know if i'm pushing with a strong hand (that i usually have) or i'm opening up here and stealing his blind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically I figured that if you haven't loosened up by now you are either a losing player or a very very small winner, which is not what you suggest by your other posts. Also you stole my blind last orbit.

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
bigt you've almost got the complete picture. basically i'm playing way tight in the early parts of the game, getting involved with only strong hands. as the bubble comes up, i'm opening up and getting more aggressive. durron is put in a tough spot here, because he doesn't know if i'm pushing with a strong hand (that i usually have) or i'm opening up here and stealing his blind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically I figured that if you haven't loosened up by now you are either a losing player or a very very small winner, which is not what you suggest by your other posts. Also you stole my blind last orbit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bingo.

[bawcerelli]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
bigt you've almost got the complete picture. basically i'm playing way tight in the early parts of the game, getting involved with only strong hands. as the bubble comes up, i'm opening up and getting more aggressive. durron is put in a tough spot here, because he doesn't know if i'm pushing with a strong hand (that i usually have) or i'm opening up here and stealing his blind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically I figured that if you haven't loosened up by now you are either a losing player or a very very small winner, which is not what you suggest by your other posts. Also you stole my blind last orbit.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a losing player; don't call next time. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Bill Poker]

[ QUOTE ]
my range here is usually JJ+. i misclicked all in. so next time i will have JJ+ and you can easily fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea you are right, next time I will only call you when I have QQ+, maybe AK occasionally;) /images/graemlins/wink.gif

this hand though, I would fold.

[bawcerelli]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
my range here is usually JJ+. i misclicked all in. so next time i will have JJ+ and you can easily fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea you are right, next time I will only call you when I have QQ+, maybe AK occasionally;) /images/graemlins/wink.gif

this hand though, I would fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

you would fold in who's spot, mine or durron's?

[tigerite]

This is quite a crazy thread really, you pushed correctly, he called correctly.. what's the problem /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[microbet]

Excellent hand to see why you need to have reads. Calling here is a HUGE mistake against some opponents and folding is a HUGE (not quite as huge) mistake against others. With no read I fold, but here I call.