Potentially The Most Serious Military Threat Of All

[MMMMMM]

Wow, I had no idea. This could be a matter of monumental importance. Comments, anyone?


(excerpt)"OTTAWA, CANADA (PRWEB) November 24, 2005 -- A former Canadian Minister of Defence and Deputy Prime Minister under Pierre Trudeau has joined forces with three Non-governmental organizations to ask the Parliament of Canada to hold public hearings on Exopolitics -- relations with “ETs.”

By “ETs,” Mr. Hellyer and these organizations mean ethical, advanced extraterrestrial civilizations that may now be visiting Earth.

On September 25, 2005, in a startling speech at the University of Toronto that caught the attention of mainstream newspapers and magazines, Paul Hellyer, Canada’s Defence Minister from 1963-67 under Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Prime Minister Lester Pearson, publicly stated: "UFOs, are as real as the airplanes that fly over your head."

Mr. Hellyer went on to say, "I'm so concerned about what the consequences might be of starting an intergalactic war, that I just think I had to say something."

Hellyer revealed, "The secrecy involved in all matters pertaining to the Roswell incident was unparalled. The classification was, from the outset, above top secret, so the vast majority of U.S. officials and politicians, let alone a mere allied minister of defence, were never in-the-loop."

Hellyer warned, "The United States military are preparing weapons which could be used against the aliens, and they could get us into an intergalactic war without us ever having any warning. He stated, "The Bush administration has finally agreed to let the military build a forward base on the moon, which will put them in a better position to keep track of the goings and comings of the visitors from space, and to shoot at them, if they so decide."

Hellyer’s speech ended with a standing ovation. He said, "The time has come to lift the veil of secrecy, and let the truth emerge, so there can be a real and informed debate, about one of the most important problems facing our planet today."(end excerpt)


The article goes on to talk about the implications of weaponizing space, and a possible space-weapon-ban treaty, and then concludes:


(excerpt)"...In early November 2005, the Canadian Senate wrote ICIS, indicating the Senate Committee could not hold hearings on ETs in 2005, because of their already crowded schedule.

“That does not deter us,” one spokesperson for the Non-governmental organizations said, “We are going ahead with our request to Prime Minister Paul Martin and the official opposition leaders in the House of Commons now, and we will re-apply with the Senate of Canada in early 2006.

“Time is on the side of open disclosure that there are ethical Extraterrestrial civilizations visiting Earth,” The spokesperson stated. “Our Canadian government needs to openly address these important issues of the possible deployment of weapons in outer war plans against ethical ET societies.”(end excerpt)

I for one don't see how we could win a war with extraterrestrials /images/graemlins/tongue.gif If ETs have the technology to travel here over light-years of space-time, we very likely would have no chance of defeating them and their highly advanced technologies if it should ever come to intergalactic war.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2005/11/inktomi314382.php

[mackthefork]

He sounds as mad as a badger to me, is this a joke? If not the danger is lunatics in the community. Standing ovation LOL?

Madness. Exterminate, exterminate.

Mack

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

I recuse myself. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[MMMMMM]

This is no joke, and it is no laughing matter.

I'm sorry there was already a war with et's and we won....it was called Independence Day...jeez where have you been!

[Cyrus]

[ QUOTE ]
Extraterrestrials - Potentially The Most Serious Military Threat Of All.

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean... more serious than Hezbollah ?

/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[BluffTHIS!]

Let's empty our prisons of all the lifers and send em in to space with 1 days supply of oxygen and a ball bat as the vanguard of our defense. Surely there are enough to circle the earth a couple times. And if the UFO threat fails to materialize, oh well.

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]

I for one don't see how we could win a war with extraterrestrials /images/graemlins/tongue.gif If ETs have the technology to travel here over light-years of space-time, we very likely would have no chance of defeating them and their highly advanced technologies if it should ever come to intergalactic war.

[/ QUOTE ]

If they were fighting a war of conquest rather than a war of annihilation, we could win through attrition. There are lots of historical examples of a less advanced society defending their home and defeating a far more advanced society.

Personally, I'm more concerned with the hidden wizarding world. I've got good information that a war broke out in the wizarding world in the summer of 1996. But, I don't know how, or if, it was ever resolved.

[Dynasty]

This guy is on FoxNes right now.


Edit: The interviewer treated Hellyer as a joke.

[BluffTHIS!]

http://movie-reviews.colossus.net/2005images/war1.JPG

http://www.lavasurfer.com/babyloop.gif

It's 1 of the 2.

[A_C_Slater]

"I for one don't see how we could win a war with extraterrestrials If ETs have the technology to travel here over light-years of space-time, we very likely would have no chance of defeating them and their highly advanced technologies if it should ever come to intergalactic war."



Don't make the mistake of assuming they have to be from another planetary star system in this galaxy.

They could originate from another dimension. Maybe inter-dimensional travel is less advanced.

[whiskeytown]

I almost posted on this - glad I caught it.

It comes down to this....plain and simple...

IF an alien Civilization comes to our planet....they have developed some EXCEPTIONALLY powerful energy sources which no doubt could be turned into exceptional weapons.

If they can cross light years of space, a task that theoretically speaking, is impossible as we understand it without approaching light speed, which requires an infinate amount of energy to do, then I feel they could make us their bitch anytime they want.

Spending money on this is like spending military budget on fighting tidal waves of the "Deep Imapct" magnitude - if it's not futile because of it's scarcity, it's futile in the effort.

But many philosophers (and myself, for that matter) believe we'll never have face to face contact with alien races. For a society to get that sort of technology to cross interstellar distances means a lot of advances have to be made which will have military applications. They generally believe that a society will destroy itself before it gets that far.

There was a great Outer Limits where a guy discovered cold fusion and went insane cause he realized the oceans could be harnessed into a bomb that could vaporize earth - If I discovered a technology that provided unlimited energy and turned tap water into an immense destructive Bomb, I'd say [censored] it and bury it for another 50 years.

And sooner or later a nutjob would use that technology to do it - (like a terrorist) -

History tells us that anything we use as an energy source we usually turn into weapons (that is, if it didn't START as a weapon in the first place, like Atomic Weapons) - so unless they're really [censored] enlightened, I don't believe it will happen - I think we'll have to settle with radio signals.

RB

[andyfox]

Probably about as serious a threat to us as Saddam was.

[whiskeytown]

nh, sir...

wish I had thought of that - /images/graemlins/grin.gif

RB

[Stu Pidasso]

[ QUOTE ]
Most Serious Military Threat Of All

Probably about as serious a threat to us as Saddam was.


[/ QUOTE ]

If you are correct the issue requires serious examination.

Stu

[whiskeytown]

ah, no it doesn't...

You've been drinking the kool-aid too long, son

RB

[Stu Pidasso]

[ QUOTE ]
ah, no it doesn't...

You've been drinking the kool-aid too long, son


[/ QUOTE ]

Saddaam was enough of a threat that we kept him in a box for 12 years prior to Gulf War II. Are you suggesting the efforts of those 12 years was wasted because Saddaam was completely harmless?

Stu

[New001]

[ QUOTE ]
Probably about as serious a threat to us as Saddam was.

[/ QUOTE ]

Emphasis mine.

[AngryCola]

I've always found it sad that many are so willing to assume all people who say things like this are crazy. Maybe he is nuts, but just assuming someone is wacko because they talk about 'alien issues' is extremely worrisome.

OMG! You guys are crazy! How can you not know that the world is flat and the sun revolves around us? ROFL!

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
But many philosophers (and myself, for that matter) believe we'll never have face to face contact with alien races. For a society to get that sort of technology to cross interstellar distances means a lot of advances have to be made which will have military applications. They generally believe that a society will destroy itself before it gets that far.

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems like probability suggests there would be a small percentage of civilizations that would make it past this stage.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

I seem to recall reading that there were a significant number of Americans who felt the same way about Hitler in the late 30's. I wonder how different the hue and cry would have been had we invaded Germany in 1938? I wonder what the last 67 years of history would look like?

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
I seem to recall reading that there were a significant number of Americans who felt the same way about Hitler in the late 30's. I wonder how different the hue and cry would have been had we invaded Germany in 1938? I wonder what the last 67 years of history would look like?

[/ QUOTE ]

Comparing Saddam to Hitler is quite a stretch, but your point about people's attitudes being similar back then is a valid one, IMO.

[Peter666]

It just proves my theory that anything involving the former government of Pierre Trudeau is inherently flawed and crazy.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Comparing Saddam to Hitler is quite a stretch

At no point do I compare the two. I compare public opinion about how dangerous to the US each was perceived at given points in time.

However, in 1938, there was no hard evidence available that Hitler was murdering German citizens because of their ethnicity (he was, of course). On the other hand, 60 Minutes ran the video of the Kurd villages on which Saddam had used nerve in the early 90's long before we attacked Iraq.

My point was that proactive military action often leaves doubt as to whether that action was necessary. Had we attack Germany in 1938, we'd still be debating whether or not we were justified in doing so from a national defense perspective.

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
My point was that proactive military action often leaves doubt as to whether that action was necessary.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

[andyfox]

One thing to consider is that terrestrial scare tactics are often caused by politics. That is, while it's possible Saddam was a credible threat to us, we should consider that politicians always lie when taking their country into a war.

All extraterrestrials have thus far been imaginary. When considering the threat from real ones, we should remember that, whenever a meteor appears in the sky, media outlets receive numerous phone calls from "witnesses" who report having seen heads peering out of the portholes.

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]


All extraterrestrials have thus far been imaginary..

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't want to get into an extended argument about this. Still, I have to say that there is absolutely no way you can know this to be true.

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
Still, I have to say that there is absolutely no way you can know this to be true.

[/ QUOTE ]


1) Physics of space travel - physical barrier of the speed of light (unless you think they can put enough military hardware on enough ships that requires cryogenic sleep to traverse the long distances) makes travel over large disances virtually impossible.

2) Physics of time travel - time's arrow.

3) Physics of cute sci-fi methods - wormholes would be so small and unstable that they would collapse very fast and not be suitable for use even if they exist.

4) Chronology of galactic civilizations - since observational evidence has thus far shown no other evidence for life, it is possible that such life has existed and died, just as our own solar system will billions of years from now.

You need to check out The Fabric of the Cosmos by Brian Greene and google for Stephen Hawking's lectures on space and time travel. Otherwise you'll just be another UFO kook who put more emphasis on the "fiction" part of science fiction.

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Still, I have to say that there is absolutely no way you can know this to be true.

[/ QUOTE ]


1) Physics of space travel - physical barrier of the speed of light (unless you think they can put enough military hardware on enough ships that requires cryogenic sleep to traverse the long distances) makes travel over large disances virtually impossible.

2) Physics of time travel - time's arrow.

3) Physics of cute sci-fi methods - wormholes would be so small and unstable that they would collapse very fast and not be suitable for use even if they exist.

4) Chronology of galactic civilizations - since observational evidence has thus far shown no other evidence for life, it is possible that such life has existed and died, just as our own solar system will billions of years from now.



[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for explaining things I already understood. It changes nothing about what I said to andy. I'm certainly no expert in these areas, but I'm hardly ignorant of anything you mentioned. Frankly, it's quite insulting that you would assume I'm uninformed about these subjects.

[ QUOTE ]
Otherwise you'll just be another UFO kook

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, of course! I have an open mind, so that clearly means I am a kook. You misundertand me, sir. I'm actually very skeptical. But I'm smart enough to know that I shouldn't dismiss people as crazy simply because they bring up this subject. I'm also smart enough to know that andy can't actually know what he claims to know.

Lastly, I've followed physics, and Hawking in particular, since I was eleven years old.

[BluffTHIS!]

Doubtless you would find it admirable that someone having studied arithmetic and learned that 2+2=4, nonetheless kept an open mind if someone claimed 2+2=3 in the same base number system.

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
Doubtless you would find it admirable that someone having studied arithmetic and learned that 2+2=4, nonetheless kept an open mind if someone claimed 2+2=3.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but 2+2 most certainly does not equal three, and there is plenty of math to prove it. Seriously, your points are not very good.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]

Comparing Saddam to Hitler is quite a stretch, but your point about people's attitudes being similar back then is a valid one, IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is it such a stretch? Because hitler was crippled thanks to our first attack and simply didn't have the military might yet? Or is it a stretch because he wasn't brutal enough?

If it's the first reason then there's an excellent speech given in parlaiment where two well written and well constructed newspaper articles are read. They are both argueing as to why they shouldn't go to war and sound exactly the same. One article is about Saddam and Iraq, the other article was written about hitler in 194x. I wish I had that video.

If you think Hitler is not as brutal as Saddam then maybe you need to study Iraqs history some more.

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Comparing Saddam to Hitler is quite a stretch, but your point about people's attitudes being similar back then is a valid one, IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is it such a stretch? Because hitler was crippled thanks to our first attack and simply didn't have the military might yet? Or is it a stretch because he wasn't brutal enough?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a stretch because the two situations and individuals are quite different. I fail to see how that could be difficult to understand. Perhaps you need to study more history?

[ QUOTE ]
If you think Hitler is not as brutal as Saddam then maybe you need to study Iraqs history some more.

[/ QUOTE ]

What? I don't see how anyone would think that is what I believe or was trying to say. Lots of people share similar characteristics, but that doesn't mean it always makes sense to compare them to each other.

[wacki]

Ehhh my last post had a typo. I meant saddam was crippled because of our first attack. Then again so was hitler for a while....

ugh... I want to get in an arguement but I don't have time to do this.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps you need to study more history?

[/ QUOTE ]

My comment on you reading history only pertains to the brutality part. If I was rude I'm sorry.

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
No, but 2+2 most certainly does not equal three, and there is plenty of math to prove it. Seriously, your points are not very good.

[/ QUOTE ]

And there is plenty of physics to show that the probability of interstellar space travel by beings of another planet while not zero, isn't much higher than that either. Thus opinions to the contrary don't need to be shown much respect. The need to show some smidgeon of indisputable evidence is incumbent upon those who assert such theories.

But hey, if you want to believe the X-Files were really fact based, then go ahead. The big wheel in the casino is also a fantastic bet.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
And there is plenty of physics to show that the probability of interstellar space travel by beings of another planet while not zero, isn't much higher than that either.

[/ QUOTE ]

You do realize that this is exctly what cola was saying. Andyfox made an absolute statement and cola corrected him.

It's like saying god doesn't exist. You can use all the physics and science you want but you can't prove god doesn't exist.

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
You do realize that this is exctly what cola was saying. Andyfox made an absolute statement and cola corrected him.

It's like saying god doesn't exist. You can use all the physics and science you want but you can't prove god doesn't exist.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then by Popper's standard, the non-falsifiability of UFOs places investigations into them outside the realm of science. Same as with most religions and the existence of God.

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]


But hey, if you want to believe the X-Files were really fact based, then go ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, you really got me with this. :shrug:

This sort of attitude tells me that I shouldn't even bother responding to your nonsense in the future. So, I won't bother. If you feel that's because I can't refute what you say, you are very wrong. It's just a complete waste of my time to attempt to intelligently debate with a person who is only interested in his own opinions.

Resorting to calling me a UFO nut, and suggesting that I believe the X-Files was based on reality, is truly juvenile.

But you are, of course, entitled to believe whatever you like. Just don't expect me to care.

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
Just don't expect me to care.

[/ QUOTE ]

How cruel.

[ratso]

I believe the man responsible for that diatribe was a very stressed out Scietologist

[Exsubmariner]

As a fan of Ronald Reagan, I feel compelled to point out that in the 1980's he made a speech about the Soviet Union in which he stated that a threat from outer space would be the thing that united the people of Earth and cause us to put aside our petty differences.

Anyone remember that?

I think it is wishful thinking.

If the article above is correct, then we really are screwed. Have a drink and be thankful for your brief golden moment in history.

X

[mrmazoo]

I honestly can't think of anything more ridiculous than worrying about attacks by aliens from outer space.

Talk about distractions from what is really important.

I respectfully suggest that some of you stop listening to AM radio at 3:00am.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

while it's possible Saddam was a credible threat to us, we should consider that politicians always lie when taking their country into a war.

I can agree with that.

[A_C_Slater]

Why is it assumed that travel would have to be at the speed of light? What about 1/4 speed of light? Alpha Centauri is only about 4 light years away. So if a civilization from there could travel 1/4 speed of light they could get here in 16 years.

I know, I know the probability of an advanced civilization in the very next star system is like billions to 1, but even if it was 100 light years away that might only be 2 generations to an advancded race. Or even one generation. Or half of one. Who knows what their life spans would be.

If they can advance to 1/4 travel certainly they also have created superior biological life extending technology as well.

[DVaut1]

[ QUOTE ]
I respectfully suggest that some of you stop listening to AM radio at 3:00am.

[/ QUOTE ]

I mean this quite seriously - there are very few things in life better than AM radio at 3:00am. As a general rule, it's much better than daytime AM radio.

Exception to the '3 AM Rule': JT the Brick

[vulturesrow]

I just want you all to sleep easy knowing that I stand ready to defend our skies from the alien hordes. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[BCPVP]

[ QUOTE ]
I just want you all to sleep easy knowing that I stand ready to defend our skies from the alien hordes. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
http://www.americanphoto.co.jp/photosearch/Previews/CIN90256_055.jpg

I'm feeling better already! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Has anyone here read "Watchmen" by Alan Moore?