$33: KK too fancy? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

Insty

11-25-2005, 10:06 AM

Here's a hand I played this morning that has been bugging me.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney 30+3, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed)

MP1 (t210)
MP2 (t775)
MP3 (t775)
CO (t1590)
Button (t630)
SB (t785)
BB (t465)
UTG (t790)
Hero (t775)
UTG+2 (t1205)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
1 fold, Hero raises to t65, 5 folds, Button calls t65, 1 fold, BB calls t50.

I think 65 is a sensible sized raise, I expect I may get a call from Ax but should eliminate the rubbish. I've been raising more than this on other tables and winning 25 worth of blinds.
I think I'd like a bit more action.

Flop: (t202.50) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
BB bets t80, Hero calls t80, Button calls t80.

I thought about raising here, but BB's small bet just looked like a blocking bet.
I figured if I just called Button might come allong too. He did.
I think I have the best hand here. I'm not too worried about the flush draw as I'm likely to get a free river card if a diamond comes and I'm happy to go broke with a Khigh flush.
Maybe I should just bet 200 here and be happy with a medium sized pot.

Turn: (t442.50) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
BB checks,

So BB had nothing.

Hero bets t150,

Maybe I should bet more here? There is still that flush draw and now a 5 will give A high callers the straight. Still, that doesn't seem like too many outs.

Button calls t150,

Ok, so I'm happy to put Button on the Ahigh draw.

BB is all-In t320,

Whoa, this bet makes no sense. Could be a set of somekind perhaps. I don't think I can fold for 170 into such a big pot. May as well push and at least get rid of the Button. If BB has A5/22/33/44/TT so be it.

Hero is all-In t480,

Button thinks for a while and then calls all-in t335.

Thoughts?

11-25-2005, 10:11 AM

Preflop is OK, maybe a little small?

Flop is stupid, don't give free cards. Raise it up.

Oddly small turn bet but OK i guess

11-25-2005, 10:12 AM

The preflop raise is fine. No need to make a bigger raise.

You have to raise the flop to give flushdraws horrible odds. If you raise the flop, your bet on the turn would be a push.

You didn't play flop and turn aggressive enough - put some chips in /images/graemlins/smile.gif

11-25-2005, 12:15 PM

Preflop 65 without limpers is fine.
On the flop you don't really want the button come along too. Too many draws out there and too easy to catch two pair for free.

And if BB (or button) has Tx he's calling your raise on the flop more often than not so go ahead and raise the flop.

On the turn I'd bet more too, at least half the pot. The pot is so big though I think pushing is the best move.

downtown

11-25-2005, 01:37 PM

You must raise the flop, you're giving cheap cards to draws otherwise. A raise of somewhere around 3/4 pot to pot sized sounds good to me.

Beyond that, I don't know what to do, since I always raise that flop.

microbet

11-25-2005, 01:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Flop: (t202.50) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
BB bets t80, Hero calls t80, Button calls t80.

I thought about raising here, but BB's small bet just looked like a blocking bet.
I figured if I just called Button might come allong too. He did.
I think I have the best hand here. I'm not too worried about the flush draw as I'm likely to get a free river card if a diamond comes and I'm happy to go broke with a Khigh flush.
Maybe I should just bet 200 here and be happy with a medium sized pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would raise. I would think the bettor is more likely to call a raise than the button is to call the bet. Also, I don't really think of runner runner diamonds as being a big help. One diamond falling would be bad, especially if you get your wish and button calls behind. You also only have one pair. Anyone else with a pair has outs.

In the later action, BB had a lot of pressure to lead out on the turn, unless he had a very strong hand. Is he crazy? He could have tried to check through a draw and then just gambled. Even with that short of a stack, a lot of players will play pretty much any suited connectors from the big blind there, so there are a few more hands that could beat you.

Button has also committed a lot of his stack here and his calling is not a big surprise with either a draw or top pair.

After your bet on the turn, I think you are stuck. I would have been stuck after the flop.

11-25-2005, 02:33 PM

Good post, I like how you laid out your thinking at each step, it'd be nice if more posters did this.

That said, I have to agree with the other posters that you should've re-raised on the flop, trying to get the button to come along so you win more is good, but having to call only 80 gives him odds for the flush, and if he had top pair he probably would've stayed in anyway, and if he had nothing you probably won't get any more out of him anyway, so I'd go ahead and bet 200-250 like you said and be happy to either take it down there or get some action.

Insty

11-26-2005, 06:21 PM

Thanks for all the feedback. It seems I definitely should have raised the flop.

Here is the result, for your entertainment:

River: 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif

Hero shows [ K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ] a pair of kings.

Button shows [ J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ] a straight, ace to five.

BB shows [ 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif ] a straight, two to six.

Hero wins 145 chips from side pot #2 with a pair of kings.

Button wins 330 chips from side pot #1 with a straight, ace to five.

BB wins 1405 chips from the main pot with a straight, two to six.

Everybody wins!

They were BOTH drawing!
BB paid to play 64o and flopped bottom pair, of course he is going to the felt.

Dear me.

Assuming at least one of them comes allong when I raise the flop I'm still losing most of my stack.

I count 20 outs between them to beat me. 52% to triple up. I like those odds.