Biography Movies They Should Make (my last thread today, I promise)

[craig r]

Bob Dylan (the true story)

Stu Ungar: Yes, I know one was made, but that doesn't count (see it and you will know why).

Adolf Hitler: No bullsht either. Make the movie and don't edit anything of his own thought.

Henry Kissinger: Once again, no bullsht. He is a war criminal and lets see why.

Mike Ness (lead singer of Social Distortion): This would probably be something crappy. But, I like true stories about tragedy, redemption, and grace.

Elvis Presley: I already have a title: "Presley: Wasn't all that and Jerry Lewis is more talented" /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Elliot Smith: I am down for any movie where a lyrical genius kills himself /images/graemlins/smile.gif .

That is all I can think of now.

craig

[diebitter]

Admiral Nelson
Errol Flynn

[ChipWrecked]

As long as we're going political, let's see Jesse Jackson's rise from poor sharecropper's kid in South Carolina to internationaly recognized media whore and hypocrite.

[craig r]

Alright, I thought of a few more:

Nat Turner: "Time to Die Whitey" (I hope it is obvious I am joking about my titles).

French "People's" Resistance to the Nazis: Sartre and others did a lot to save jews, gays, gypsy's, etc.. and risked their lives my doing so. For the French haters, I will title the movie: "Hey, were not all pusies".

Craig: This just got me thinking, do people think their lives are interesting enough to have a movie made about it? Like, has anybody done something so great, that they think a movie should be made about them. My title would be: "Craig R: Skipping High School To Get Stoned and Jerk Off about his hot teacher (yet still doesn't go to her class)". The sequel would be: "Craig R: Skipping college to get stoned". And the final set of the trilogy: "Craig R: Why did he wait so long to do coke"

craig

p.s. I don't do coke.

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
As long as we're going political, let's see Jesse Jackson's rise from poor sharecropper's kid in South Carolina to internationaly recognized media whore and hypocrite.

[/ QUOTE ]

As long as it is factual with a good soundtrack I will watch it. We can then make the GW version about his rise from the upper class to the even more upper class to internationally recognized and hypocrite /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

craig

[diebitter]

[ QUOTE ]


French "People's" Resistance to the Nazis: Sartre and others did a lot to save jews, gays, gypsy's, etc.. and risked their lives my doing so. For the French haters, I will title the movie: "Hey, were not all pusies".


[/ QUOTE ]

Meh.

I remember seeing an interview with an old German who fought in the first world war, when asked what it was like to fight the French, and he said 'I don't know, they ran too fast, and left good supplies behind.'

Edit: Actually I have no doubt there are and were brave French people. But not many.

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


French "People's" Resistance to the Nazis: Sartre and others did a lot to save jews, gays, gypsy's, etc.. and risked their lives my doing so. For the French haters, I will title the movie: "Hey, were not all pusies".


[/ QUOTE ]

Meh.

I remember seeing an interview with an old German who fought in the first world war, when asked what it was like to fight the French, and he said 'I don't know, they ran too fast, and left good supplies behind.'

Edit: Actually I have no doubt there are and were brave French people. But not many.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, the didn't do to much to defend themselves against the Nazis (I am sure there are reasons I don't know about). I was talking more about the people who actually risked their lives to save people (which was not really a prioity for the French Government). In fact, the English were the only ones that I know of that took Jewish children in. I think it was called the "Kinder Train".

craig

[Blarg]

I'd like to see a movie about the guy who came to California from Cambodia with nothing and became his country's doughnut hero. He opened a string of shops here just off living like a total dog till he scraped up enough money for his first doughnut shop, then opened a huge number of them all across Southern California, and inspired a whole bunch of other Cambodians to open doughnut shops too. In just a few years, almost all the doughnut shops in L.A. were supposedly Cambodian. Like, a ridiculous, overwhelming percentage.

I saw a documentary on doughnut shops in Southern California, and it was really interesting seeing how some of these guys just lived like absolute dogs for years on end till they finally came up for air with enough money to take a chance on their own doughnut shops, and some of them actually wound up talking about their jaguars and such and living in nice homes after all they went through. This fellow was mentioned as an inspiration to all of them.

Kinda heroic stuff. Very few Americans would be willing to pay that price for success.

I also wouldn't mind seeing a biography on Reginald Denny, the guy who got stomped in the L.A. riots. You didn't hear a lot about his side of the story, or what it did to him.

I'd love to see a biography of Hitler that was done as craig says, but any story about him that doesn't paint him as basically a pulsing, throbbing evil who is pretty much far beyond understanding and pretty much cartoonishly so is slammed really hard right away and almost impossible to do.

Oh, and I think I've heard that Jesus was supposed to have had a brother. Now that would make for an interesting story.

And I'd like to see a really good biography of L. Ron Hubbard. A science fiction writer goes on to create a secretive, aggressive cult-like religion after saying it would be the best way someone could make a whole lot of money. People pay fortunes to "learn" it. Eventually it rises into fashion in Hollywood, but by then is already making enormous amounts of dollars throughout the world. Germany tries to ban it. Other countries react with similar hostility. President Clinton tells John Travolta he'll look into that, and another movie star is sold something else! Ron fancies the navy for some reason, and as I recall, makes up some stories about it. He forms the Sea Org, reputedly a sort of intelligence service and goon squad within the religion, to go after people, and his "religion" becomes famous for crazily aggressive lawsuits and attempts to go after people who leave the religion. There's a story here somewhere.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As long as we're going political, let's see Jesse Jackson's rise from poor sharecropper's kid in South Carolina to internationaly recognized media whore and hypocrite.

[/ QUOTE ]

As long as it is factual with a good soundtrack I will watch it. We can then make the GW version about his rise from the upper class to the even more upper class to internationally recognized and hypocrite /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

craig

[/ QUOTE ]

If that's the GW I'm thinking about, he was never upper middle class. His dad got chauffered to school in the middle of the depression. They've been rich for a very long time.

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As long as we're going political, let's see Jesse Jackson's rise from poor sharecropper's kid in South Carolina to internationaly recognized media whore and hypocrite.

[/ QUOTE ]

As long as it is factual with a good soundtrack I will watch it. We can then make the GW version about his rise from the upper class to the even more upper class to internationally recognized and hypocrite /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

craig

[/ QUOTE ]

If that's the GW I'm thinking about, he was never upper middle class. His dad got chauffered to school in the middle of the depression. They've been rich for a very long time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was actually just joking with the person who responded to me about Jesse Jackson. The only difference in the world's eye (for the most part) is class. Bushy went from really rich to even more rich.

craig

p.s. I voted for Bush btw on a bet. My friends were so convinced I would vote Nader that I made a small wager with them.

p.p.s. I also voted for David Duke, but that is because I don't like Jews.

[Lazymeatball]

Well, I saw the Aviator last night which is a bio pic on Howard Hughes, a true eccentric who had an impact on american history. I'm slowly coming around to liking Leo DiCaprio, but he still comes off as a young pretty boy even after the makeup department tries to horribly disfigure him after that plane crash. It shows a really bizarre, almost schizophrenic side of HH, especially the fear of crowds and germaphobe aspect.

[ChipWrecked]

[ QUOTE ]

p.p.s. I also voted for David Duke, but that is because I don't like Jews.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oi! You are either very funny, or have balls like churchbells. Or both.

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

p.p.s. I also voted for David Duke, but that is because I don't like Jews.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oi! You are either very funny, or have balls like churchbells. Or both.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am Jewish and have even posted a picture of the Hebrew Hammer on here somewhere and told people that was me (InthaCup did say I might be able to pull his look off). I am willing to make comments like that if it makes me look stupid and ignorant. Kind of like in Arrested Development when Henry Winkler calls his assistant a [censored]. One doesn't think, "yeah, homos suck". But, instead they realize the person saying it is a moron.

In the 2000 elections I gave my Jew grandma, who lives in Florida, a hard time, because she said that Bush won because people like me voted for Nader. But, we really know it is because the Jews voted for Buchanan (Man, if only Buchanan won, I could be sitting in a concentration camp instead of dorking it up on here.

craig

Angelina Atyam. Her daughter was kidnapped by the Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda and taken into Sudan. She responded by cofounding the Concerned Parent's Association, a group dedicated to putting an end to the child slavery trade in northern Uganda/southern Sudan. After much agitation, the LRA offered to return her daughter to her if she'd cease her activism. Her response? "I want all the children back".

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]

Adolf Hitler: No bullsht either. Make the movie and don't edit anything of his own thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

There was a crappy TV movie about Hitler that was shown a few years ago.

[gamblore99]

I would love to see an accurate biography on hitler, and his thoughts. With all the hate towards him, that will probably be impossible.

[westside_eh]

[ QUOTE ]
Adolf Hitler: No bullsht either. Make the movie and don't edit anything of his own thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not a biography, but Downfall (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0363163/) is about Hitler's final 3 days. It is really good at showing some of Hitler's assets which made him a powerful leader.

Also note it's #55 alltime on IMDB.

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Adolf Hitler: No bullsht either. Make the movie and don't edit anything of his own thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not a biography, but Downfall (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0363163/) is about Hitler's final 3 days. It is really good at showing some of Hitler's assets which made him a powerful leader.

Also note it's #55 alltime on IMDB.

[/ QUOTE ]

I will check it out. It isn't a lot of propoganda, is it? Like, it isn't told from an American perspective of us vs. them. I can't stand that.

craig

p.s. Just so you know that was not an anti-american comment, but a comment on any us vs. them propoganda film.

[westside_eh]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Adolf Hitler: No bullsht either. Make the movie and don't edit anything of his own thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not a biography, but Downfall (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0363163/) is about Hitler's final 3 days. It is really good at showing some of Hitler's assets which made him a powerful leader.

Also note it's #55 alltime on IMDB.

[/ QUOTE ]

I will check it out. It isn't a lot of propoganda, is it? Like, it isn't told from an American perspective of us vs. them. I can't stand that.

craig

p.s. Just so you know that was not an anti-american comment, but a comment on any us vs. them propoganda film.

[/ QUOTE ]
Nah. I don't like preachy movies.

The review on IMDB: "The film does not provide any commentary or judgment, it just shows facts."

It's a high budget german made movie which was nominated for Best Foriegn Movie at the Oscars. Of course, it's subtitled.

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Adolf Hitler: No bullsht either. Make the movie and don't edit anything of his own thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not a biography, but Downfall (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0363163/) is about Hitler's final 3 days. It is really good at showing some of Hitler's assets which made him a powerful leader.

Also note it's #55 alltime on IMDB.

[/ QUOTE ]

I will check it out. It isn't a lot of propoganda, is it? Like, it isn't told from an American perspective of us vs. them. I can't stand that.

craig

p.s. Just so you know that was not an anti-american comment, but a comment on any us vs. them propoganda film.

[/ QUOTE ]
Nah. I don't like preachy movies.

The review on IMDB: "The film does not provide any commentary or judgment, it just shows facts."

It's a high budget german made movie which was nominated for Best Foriegn Movie at the Oscars. Of course, it's subtitled.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, one last question. You said it was a German movie. Now, obviously a lot of Germans are very embrassed about their past. So, my final question, is Hitler made to look like a psychopath? Don't get me wrong, obviously he was fcked up, but to dismiss anyting bad as psychotic really bothers me.

[gamblore99]

well I think he must have been mentally unhealthy to some degree. I mean, he was trying to kill every jew. That doesn't seem like something someone in their right mind would do.

[westside_eh]

[ QUOTE ]

Okay, one last question. You said it was a German movie. Now, obviously a lot of Germans are very embrassed about their past. So, my final question, is Hitler made to look like a psychopath? Don't get me wrong, obviously he was fcked up, but to dismiss anyting bad as psychotic really bothers me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope.

Not gonna say anymore you just have to watch it /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
well I think he must have been mentally unhealthy to some degree. I mean, he was trying to kill every jew. That doesn't seem like something someone in their right mind would do.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. But, my point was that the Nazis are always made to look psychotic, much more in Schindler's List than the Pianist. And from all that I have read, they were no more/less psychotic than any other type of soldier/military personnel. For one, the Nazis didn't want psychopaths in their ranks. You need somebody that can think straight. Also, lots of Jews were interviewed and send that it was rare for Nazis to just randomly start shooting. Of course, it did happen, but not as often as movies would make us think. I am in no way defending the Nazis, I am not a fascist or a racist, my point is that there is just the everyday evil things that people do. An example from American history would be the colonists giving the Native Amercians blankets with smallpox on purpose to kill them off. Is that fcked up? Yes. Was it systematic? yes. But, were these guys psychopaths. I would say not. I think by saying somebody or group is psychotic or evil is too simple of an explanation and we will never get to solve these recurring problems. And if they are psychopaths, then we have a lot more psychopaths in this world than I thought. Plus, where were the U.S. congressman who were anti semites who wouldn't let the jews in the U.S.? And what about the Jews who helped finance Hitler and later had a chance to save a bunch of jews, but didnt? I am not trying to turn this into a political discussion. Maybe this belongs in psychology and I apology for the hijacking. You should see the movie "The Fog of War". It is a documentary about Robert McNamara, the defense secretary under kennedy and johnson. You will see my point (plus it is a great documentary and interviews with him all filmed in the present (well at least the interviews). Long story short, he planned the deaths of a lot of people and you can tell he was choked up. And you also could tell he wasn't that bad of a guy.

craig

[ReDeYES88]

[ QUOTE ]
Bob Dylan (the true story)

[/ QUOTE ]

only goes to 1966, but great stuff. . .scorsese, even

http://ia.imdb.com/media/imdb/01/I/99/52/39m.jpg


link (http://imdb.com/title/tt0367555/)

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bob Dylan (the true story)

[/ QUOTE ]

only goes to 1966, but great stuff. . .scorsese, even

http://ia.imdb.com/media/imdb/01/I/99/52/39m.jpg


link (http://imdb.com/title/tt0367555/)

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw it and then ordered the DVD. i was a little disappointed. Not because I didn't like the way it was filmed, but it briefly, if at all, mentioned how orchestrated and concocted his image was. And I think that is important. When I read a biography I remember being so disappointed, because he wasn't who you thought he was. He was an entertainer, pure and simple. in fact, I read the biography when I was 16 and I think I learned then that my music idols should stop being idols. Well, with the obvious exception of Sir-Mix-A-Lot. Don' get me wrong the documentary was very good, but I think it should have pointed out some more of the negative things.

craig

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
Angelina Atyam. Her daughter was kidnapped by the Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda and taken into Sudan. She responded by cofounding the Concerned Parent's Association, a group dedicated to putting an end to the child slavery trade in northern Uganda/southern Sudan. After much agitation, the LRA offered to return her daughter to her if she'd cease her activism. Her response? "I want all the children back".

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right, this sounds like it would make a great movie.

[Blarg]

I read when it came out that there was a big controversy over Dylan's image that Scorcese for some reason left out completely. Apparently some of that image concocting was highly derived from someone else's personality Dylan adopted almost verbatim.

[craig r]

But even the anti-corportate stuff was corporate sponsored. I am talking about his image more than his style. He always admitted that he copied guthrie and others. But, it was more like, he was a lefty with political ideas, but his label made sure he performed in the right places, wore the right clothes, said the right things in press conferences/interviews.

But, he did a very good job of fooling everybody. Even Huey Newton and Bobby Seale thought that he was the greatest singer/lyricist of their generation. Which is a pretty big compliment coming from a militant black group to a tiny Jewish boy.

But, you know, I might be being too harsh. Because part of the reason the Beatles became more political/socially conscious is because of conversations with Mr. Zimmerman (just part; Harrison going to India was a big deal as well).

So maybe the "ideal" doesn't matter and it is just the actions that matter. Yes, corporations made a lot off of Bob Dylan by co-opting his ideas, but this in turn got a whole generation taking action. In some ways, he is like Rage Against the Machine (obviously not as influential as Dylan was), but they are on a major label, and are allowed to discuss leftist ideas. And maybe this does more than somebody like Fugazi, who is fairly large, but not enough corporate exposure (by their own choice). So, in the end the label co-opted Dylan's lyrics (which I guess weren't all his own and he took credit for some), but it also created new ideas.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Dylan was totally commercial like the hacks Jefferson Airplane (they were the glam rock of the late 60's and early 70's (and eventually They built a city on rock and roll). So, maybe, I should end this rant. But, I don't want to cause I think you dig what I am saying Blarg.

So, I guess with Dylan, there was the Dylan we saw and "idealized" and then the one that was created. And maybe if somebody does a lot of good, we shouldn't worry about the messenger, but the message. It is just kind of disappointing. But, my guess is that most of these "ideals" we have of "rock stars" are just ideals. I don't know why that bothers me.

One last example, this will sound f'ed up, but take Elliott Smith. He wrote sad songs, lyrics, and offed himself. Now I wish he wouldn't have, of course, I liked him a lot, but we know he wasn't lying about his pain. It was real and not concocted. Like, I said, I was very sad when he killed himself.

Another person that was somewhat full of crap, was Allen Ginsberg. He was very influential on the beats all the way up to Abbie Hoffmann. But, he was full of crap. He made people believe that poetry and writing wasn't hard, "First thought, best thought". But, it turns out this isn't true, including for him.

Another person is Abbie Hoffman, gave all his money from his book to the BPP, fought for black rights, trying to elect a pig (pigasus) to the presidency. Yet, he was a coke head who is manic depressive, who had some racist and sexist tendencies.

So, is the "real" celebrity important or the one that we perceive? Or should I just be inspired and not need an icon or leader. In fact, most "leaders" are nothing. It is always the peoople's names you don't know that make big events happen. Like, MLK was nothing without all the no-names supporting him. Anyways I will end this rant, because I am a smart enough guy that I don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

[samjjones]

[ QUOTE ]

Errol Flynn

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, we already have "My Favorite Year". That's good enough for me.

[Blarg]

Humans are basically herd animals. We need leaders to do our thinking for us and embody all virtues, and it's rare even in the smallest settings that someone doesn't get de facto elected even if no one is competing.

Unfortunately, that leads to being uncritical of leaders and well known people on the one hand and idolizing them, and on the other hand to tearing them to pieces if their fame or popularity loses any momentum or if a chink of humanity shows through their armor. It's precisely for their inhumaneness, a quality we are the first to ascribe to them and which many never ascribe to themselves at all, that we adore them. And yet that is the reason we also sometimes come to hate them, as if in their ordinary humanity they have broken an implicit contract with us and let us down, hoodwinked us into trusting and worshipping them and their perfection, when really no one could assign that to anyone except by a perverse act of will.

This is why we have maniacs walking through Central Park in NYC retracing Holden Caulfield's route in Catcher in the Rye. This is actually quite common among celebrity stalkers, by the way. A great number of the really nutty ones are actually supposedly captured with the book actually on them at the time, and often with multiple copies in their possession, one back at their hotel room and such, too. Mark David Chapman, Lennon's murderer, wasn't the only one. His murder of Lennon was because he felt Lennon was a phoney and sometimes did things only for money. Lennon's celebrity was simply mere celebrity rather than some sort of personal perfection or godhood, which was necessary for the vaccuum of the centerless void of a personality like Chapman's to coalesce around. Without an embodied perfection, Chapman was hapless in the world, and an idol's mere humanity was taken as a profound betrayal and a signal reversal of good into evil, a cuckolding of the human spirit. Lennon's death was a sort of reverse crucifixion, a purifying act ridding the world involuntarily of a paramount sinner, rather than saint, to help cleanse the sins of us all -- this time, bestowing the mantle of righteousness back onto the killer, who never should have assigned it to anyone else in the first place.

Where was Lennon in the midst of all this? Living life, often stupidly, but happily coming out with his first interersting album in a long time. He was some dude living in a building who got assigned both godhood and deviltry at random by someone who could have put any celebrity in the pivotal role.

We need leaders and celebrities to worship and destroy rather than merely lead or perform. The rapt attention paid to their every move often seems to put them all on an equal plane, so The Condition of the President's Dog is as worthy of front page news coverage as his nuclear policy, or a star's walking through a hotel lobby gets as much coverage as if he had just released a movie. No human condition can healthily sustain that much undue attention and reverence.

No matter how many celebrities the world is populated with, none of them will live our lives for us or solve our problems. Many do a pretty poor job of handling their own. At any rate, basking in their glory or assigning them undue significance or expectations is a poorly chosen palliative that says more about the person indulging in it than about the public figure stuck without their consent with the responsibility of keeping it going. And an expiration date is inevitable with that kind of medicine.

[CrazyEyez]

Churchill.

[PhatTBoll]

Roger Waters
H.P. Lovecraft
Boadicea