2 Party hands, Kukavica, Fucngr8t

[Peter_rus]

Used to play 50/100 Party a bit this month.
Try to find my way to dominate these smarty lags. I often try to outtrick them, not betting only with goods, bluffing, occasionally folding and try to be lesser readable. My image sucks as always i hope, also i'm obviously on a bad run, show down some bluffs and second best hands etc.., so i guess i'm expected to either tilting or to be scared to fold more then needed.

I spot that some people ask to post nicknames in case they're well-known to improve the quality of advices so i did it.

There are 2 hands i'm not sure about given description above:

Hand against Kukavica:

Party Poker 50.00/100.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(6 handed)</font> link (http://www.darksun.lunarpages.com/poker/)

Preflop: Peter__rus is SB with 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Peter__rus completes, BB checks.

Flop: (2.00 SB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Peter__rus bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Peter__rus calls.

Turn: (3.00 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Peter__rus checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Peter__rus raises</font>, BB calls.

River: (7.00 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Peter__rus checks

Final Pot: 7.00 BB.

Hand against Fucngr8t:

Party Poker 50.00/100.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(10 handed)</font> link (http://www.darksun.lunarpages.com/poker/)

Preflop: Peter__rus is BB with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Peter__rus 3-bets</font>, CO calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Peter__rus bets</font>, CO calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Peter__rus bets</font>, CO calls.

River: (6.25 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Peter__rus bets</font>, CO calls.

Final Pot: 8.25 BB.

[Steve Giufre]

I would fold the 54 VS him preflop. He is very tough postflop with position and thats just not much of a hand. If I was going to play I would probably raise. I dont really dont understand the turn checkraise. I highly doubt he is going to fold a bigger /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. I also find it kinda hard to believe he is going to call with a worse hand. I like check call, lead the river if he checks behind.

Hand 2 looks good to me. I would three bet him preflop and bet every street as you did.

[DeeJ]

Caveat: I don't know the opponents, but I'll take it they're tricky lags.
Hand 1: I think check-call is the river play, but bet-call might be better. Will he call with the straight - probably, but he'd also raise with the flush which you'd have to call. The flush is more likely than the straight, so I think check-call is a slight favorite here.

Hand 2: weak ace, any king or queen will surely call here. So I like it.

[Paluka]

Hand 1 I think is a clear fold preflop. I think that Kukavica makes more money than he should because people try and outplay him. You aren't supposed to try and outplay him, because playing your normal game is outplaying him already.

[Baulucky]

I'd check-call hand 2 on the river. I think he has a weak Ace or 2 pair. Do you fold to a river raise?. That's why I'd check-call the river. Opinion on this?

[Peter_rus]

[ QUOTE ]
You aren't supposed to try and outplay him, because playing your normal game is outplaying him already.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually doubt it 'cause normally my folding equity is too high for him. You can argue - i just must to call down more - but it's also not a way to play against him cause it's make for him easiest value bets with his trashy pairs as my call downs will cry "I have A-high".

He isn't stupid so once he sees that he dominates someone to "call down with A-high shell" he will win a lot with his value bets and once he spots too much folding - he turns to laggy one. Balancing allow him to extract a lot from ABC-players who either turn to calling stations against him without good hands or simply fold non-goods too often.

I don't want to give up his folding equity and let him play easiest poker against me. So i try to vary my play against him also way more than against other players, who fold and raise against me more honestly than him.

[Paluka]

Trying to play more hands against him only gives him more fold equity, because you are going to have to fold more when you are starting with worse hands. I dont' think you want to loosen up against this guy when he has position on you. When he is behind you, you have to punish him by having great starting hands. When you are behind him, you can try a lot more things.

[Baulucky]

Paluka: How do you play the river on hand number 2, please?

[bicyclekick]

Kukavica is one of the last people I'd want in the bb when I'm in the sb when I have 5 high. Fold. There's no way you're not losing more than the .25bb you lose by folding. Just give it up.

Are you just turn check/raising merely for "hey look at me i'm not scared of you i'll c/r you with a v mediocre holding" or did you actually think that's the best play in a vacuum cause I don't really get it.

Hand 2 I often call pre-flop more than I 3 bet...but fucng8t opens lighter than just about anyone in taht game so actually there that might be the best play. I like the bets on all streets.

[chaosuk]

Unless your known for limp raising his blind with medium hands (J-Q) then I think the call is probably wrong as he will doubtless raise a lot in this spot, especially SH.

The rest of the play is fine, at least a portion of the time. Kv will bet a lot of hands on the turn that you are beating (1st &amp; 2nd pair)and, importantly, will call some of the non-flush variety if you are prone to mixing it up with him. A smaller flush is definitely on the cards, as well as, of course, a medium one. You are certainly much more likely to hold a bigger flush, which may stay him from a raise with medium flush on the river.

If you're called on the river I prlly just fancy being in front, but that still makes it a comfortable bet. If he raises with 9d on the river, then you just say 'too good'. But he has to raise with 7,9,10 to make the bet wrong imo.
But I'd not expect him to put you on such low diamonds (esp 2 or 3)to make the play.

chaos

[DcifrThs]

hand 1: pf oop vs. kuk w/ 54o is a fold. if you've been folding your sb too much lately and he thinks you are playing tightly (which doesn't seem to be the case here) you can raise b/c his requirements vs. you and his perception of your tighter image would get him to fold more hand and you'd know a bit more where you were. even then, 54o isn't really the ideal hand to do that with.

id check call the diamond turn there and lead the river calling if raised.

Hand 2: there are very very few people against whom i think KJo is a 3bet from the bb given the position of the raiser...fucngr8t is one of them imo. this guy opens w/ some very shocking hands. further, the bets on flop, turn, and river are decreasing on the margin in value imo. that being said, i still like it b/c he can certainly call w/ a worse K or Q thinking you are moving him off a hand better than JJ/TT/99/88. but given calls on all streets the probability you lose to a naked ace are way bigger but not enough to warrant not betting the river...which is why the value of the bet decreases w/ each bet you put out there given the previous action.

Barron

[Paluka]

[ QUOTE ]
Paluka: How do you play the river on hand number 2, please?

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't played with that psycho Fucngr8t in a while, but I have a hard time finding a river bet here. I think betting is probably correct though. You aren't going to fold if he bets, and if he was going to raise you he would have already. He will often call you with a worse hand, because he blows.

[Peter_rus]

[ QUOTE ]
merely for "hey look at me i'm not scared of you i'll c/r you with a v mediocre holding"

[/ QUOTE ]

Defenitely, it's for some future purposes as it's quite often i'll be in SB when it's folded around and he will be in BB, so i want to teach him not-to-bet-if-checked-to too often so i could fold to his bet in future less uncertain.

Of course i'm nearly never use such play in vacuum but against him - i would make it with middle pair-no flush as well cause he could have vacuum too often here also. Though i hate myself for not betting river in hand 1.

In immediate future there was another hand vs him in another table where i guess he give me more bets then he usually do, though i could be wrong:

He raised in MP1, LP called and i 3-bet out of BB with AKo. Flop is AKK-rainbow.
I bet, he raised,LP folded, i 3-bet, he capped, and i call.

turn is blank. I check and call.
river is blank. I check and raised, he calls and show KT.

[PassiveCaller]

I haven't played with either but...

Hand 1: I'd probably muck here most of the time pre-flop and just end it. However... How often do you see him raising your river bet here when you aren't beat? It doesn't seem like he's going to raise worse hands very often here. I think it might just be best to let small diamonds (less likely), straights, sets to call and to just bet the river. If I think he'll auto-bet then maybe I check otherwise it seems like it just lets him make a perfect decision and it seems a lot of better hands will still just call.

Hand 2: Against the type you 3-bet KJo against then this line is quite fine. At this point I'm not expecting much in terms of being raised and against the light openers you could see enough weaker Ks or whatever pair that decided to call down.

[tongni]

Hand 1: Checkraising the turn then check calling the river = lol

Hand 2: Looks standard.

[Peter_rus]

1 hand. Kukavica shows Q4o without diamond.

2 hand. Fucngr8t shows Q9o.

[DeeJ]

Hand 1, did he bet or check?

[Peter_rus]

Check.

[mmcd]

In Hand 1, the J, T, 9, or 7 of diamonds might fold to a turn bet/3-bet. If you were willing to put in 3 bb anyways, I think this is a better line. Plus, if he just calls the turn, you can value bet the river and fold to a raise.