Another Godfather Thread: Best Character

[craig r]

My favorite would probably be Sonny.

A second would be Waltz (the movie producer in the first one). I don't know why I think it is so funny when he calls Tom a "guinea WOP", finds out he isn't Italian, and decides to throw out more racial slurs. It was like Waltz was just determined to insult him and could only do it racially.

I also like Clemenza also.

craig

[KaneKungFu123]

the guy joe pesci played.

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
the guy joe pesci played.

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Joe Pesci was in the Godfather? I don't remember him. Maybe he had a small role.

Oh wait, wasn't he Vito's wife? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

craig

[diebitter]

yeah to Sonny and Clemenza. Vito too, but liked him in his younger days better.

Vito was a MAN in all senses of the word (loved his children, respected people, did what he had to do, used his head, kept his word, stuck with his friends - you know, all those masculine traits that don't seem to be held in much esteem these days).

I like Connie as well, especially when she talks to Michael about Fredo.

[Blarg]

Clemenza was very cool. Really easy to like.

I get a bone for Abe Vigoda just on principle, though, so I like Tessio, too.

I also really liked Tom Hagen a lot. It was hard being deeply in that world and in that family and still never quite accepted. Yet never quite rejected. He's always walking a lot of very fine lines in between different worlds and walking them very well, usually better than he's given credit for.

It occurs to me that he seems like the only character in the story who could have written it.

[ChipWrecked]

Bobby DeNiro as the young Don.

The scene where the neighborhood slumlord is so shitscared he can't get Vito's office door to open makes me laugh every time.

(refers to the superior GFII, which I assume is fair ground here)

[Blarg]

I don't agree it's superior at all, but lots of people do.

I'll put a kind word in for Fredo. He's this half-century's Shemp. Nobody would want to be Fredo, but John Casale really did him well and made him memorable.

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
Vito was a MAN in all senses of the word (loved his children, respected people, did what he had to do, used his head, kept his word, stuck with his friends).

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I know what you mean by "respected people", but for the most part he didn't. He was still violent. I think this is one thing that seperates Goodfellas/Casino from The Godfather movies. When I watch the Godfather I say to myself, "that life wouldn't be so bad". But, with Goodfellas/Casino, yes that life is glorified, but most realize it isn't a good life. I don't know, those are just my takes.

craig

Also, Vito, at first was against bringing in smack, but eventually changed his mind. So, on one hand he was a "man" with respect, but on the other hand he was willing to profit off of other people's extreme misery. And I think Coppola did do a good job of showing that. Coppola also did a good job of showing the "justification" of "their" way of life.

craig

[KaneKungFu123]

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1560253886.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

[Blarg]

He had some standards, reflected in his not wanting to deal drugs and wanting to have meetings be conducted decently when tensions were high, in not throwing his weight around and interfering in Connie's marriage, and in not ordering a murder of the mortician's daughter's rapist, but merely a savage beating. He drew lines.

But he was also compulsively what he was. The boogeyman scaring the little kid in the garden was him reverting to type, inescapably and stupidly what he was. A man of both intelligence and practical wisdom, but a flawed and corrupted heart.

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
But he was also compulsively what he was. The boogeyman scaring the little kid in the garden was him reverting to type, inescapably and stupidly what he was. A man of both intelligence and practical wisdom, but a corrupted heart.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perfect summary of him. He hid under the guise of offering protection, but at the same time, did more harm than good to his community. This reminds me of the notorious Irish mobster in boston. He always talked about protectin Southy and that you needed to respect your fellow neighbors. Yes, this scumbag (I can't remember his name) was the whole reason Heroin was allowed into this poor community. So, while he pretended to protect his community, he was actually destroying it.

craig

[diebitter]

[ QUOTE ]
But he was also compulsively what he was. The boogeyman scaring the little kid in the garden was him reverting to type, inescapably and stupidly what he was.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's an interesting perspective that I'd never, ever thought of. It's certainly a powerful subtext I'd never consciously registered.

Now I think about it, seeing visitors whilst hidden away in a darkened room has the boogeyman about it too!

I need to think this over some. Maybe I'll watch em again.

My feeling is still Vito is a kindly man, who did what he did as the only way he could rise - ultimately for his family - but I guess I got suckered into the romantic notions that the film perpetuates by its beautiful composition and colouring etc.

Maybe he just wanted power, not sure.

I'll certainly watch the films with a different eye, next time.

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But he was also compulsively what he was. The boogeyman scaring the little kid in the garden was him reverting to type, inescapably and stupidly what he was.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's an interesting perspective that I'd never, ever thought of. It's certainly a powerful subtext I'd never consciously registered.

Now I think about it, seeing visitors whilst hidden away in a darkened room has the boogeyman about it too!

I need to think this over some. Maybe I'll watch em again.

My feeling is still Vito is a kindly man, who did what he did as the only way he could rise - ultimately for his family - but I guess I got suckered into the romantic notions that the film perpetuates by its beautiful composition and colouring etc.

Maybe he just wanted power, not sure.

I'll certainly watch the films with a different eye, next time.

[/ QUOTE ]

He was a kind man, who did some very bad things. But, I think most people know about the "banality of evil". A good example, would be soldiers who fight in wars (any war at anytime). They think they are doing good, and, in some cases are, but at the same time, they are causing a lot of damage and not realizing it.

Another Example: A Nazi war criminal, Adolf Eichmann, during his trial, pretty much did not think what he was doing was "wrong". In fact, after reading the book "Eichmann in Jerusalem: 'A report on the banality of evil'", you almost feel sorry for him. And this was a man that was responsible for a lot of deaths. But, reading his "interviews", you wouldn't be a jerk to the guy if you met him on the street. He was just a guy doing what he thought he had to do.

craig

[craig r]

I am going to add Michael Corleone "part 2". This was a guy who didn't want to have anything to do with this way of life. He was caring and wanted to "serve his country". But, Coppola does an amazing job of showing the transition of Michael "the good guy", to Michael without a "soul". Most gangster movies don't really do this. Even Goodfellas, Henry's personality doesn't change much from a kid to an adult. I mean, yeah, he gets addicted to Coke, but for the most part stays the same. But, with Michael Corleone, he loved his family, yet was willing to kill his own brother. And his brother was just stupid and weak and Michael could show no compassion for that. So, by "favorite" character here, I don't mean because I admire him or think he is a good guy. It is the transition that makes him great.

craig

[youtalkfunny]

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He had some standards, reflected in his not wanting to deal drugs and...

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He told the Turk he wouldn't deal drugs because the cops and politicians didn't really care about victimless crimes such as gambling or prostitution or bootlegging, but would not stand idly by for drug dealing.

If it weren't for those legal and political ramifications, I have no doubt that Vito would've put Tony Montana to shame.

[Blarg]

He does say he's not a man to judge how another man makes his living, so it was okay with him if the Turk did his business on his own, but he wanted no part of it. So you're right that at least he protests in a way that makes it sound like he has no morals on the matter.

I'm not sure if that was his whole take on the matter, or merely a way of saying things smoothly, but I could be wrong. Someone voiced something like that drugs were for animals like n*ggers, and who cared what they did to each other. I kind of thought Vito might be someone on this side of the issue too, thinking it too foul, but you never know. Or at least, I'm not sure. He doesn't seem to have much respect for the garbage king, Battalgia I think was his name? Or for pimping either. But criminal standards are twisted; we know that the Don trafficked in murder.

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He had some standards, reflected in his not wanting to deal drugs and...

[/ QUOTE ]

He told the Turk he wouldn't deal drugs because the cops and politicians didn't really care about victimless crimes such as gambling or prostitution or bootlegging, but would not stand idly by for drug dealing.

If it weren't for those legal and political ramifications, I have no doubt that Vito would've put Tony Montana to shame.

[/ QUOTE ]

But, politicians now don't turn a blind eye to drug dealing is probably what you think. But, now who is being naive.

craig

p.s. I always use that line on my father in law. He tells me that governments don't just have people killed and I tell him, "Now, who is being naive Kay?"

[Blarg]

I love it when Homer Simpson uses this line on Marge.

It's usually when she snaps back at him for being stupid, saying something like, "Supreme Court justices didn't need to take their clothes off to get their job." His knowing rejoinder and admonishing look back at her is always a crack up.

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
I love it when Homer Simpson uses this line on Marge.

It's usually when she snaps back at him for being stupid, saying something like, "Supreme Court justices didn't need to take their clothes off to get their job." His knowing rejoinder and admonishing look back at her is always a crack up.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is funny on the Simpsons.

Another line I have used from there is on one of my friends out here in San Diego. I take fairly small bets for sports at around $100-200 max. Just for fun and usually I try to middle it online. Anyways, my friend who goes to college says that I shouldn't do that to college kids, because they can't win.

Well, 2 weeks ago he tells me that he has find some people that want to place bets and wonders if I will give him a commission. So, I told him, "You thinking this is like betting $1 with your dad over the super bowl? You didn't want to get involved in the small bookmaking business. You actually have to collect the 'dirty' money and put it in your Ivy League suit." Though, this is a little more obscure and far-fetched than the Sonny/Michael conversation.

craig

[ChipWrecked]

[ QUOTE ]
Someone voiced something like that drugs were for animals like n*ggers, and who cared what they did to each other. I kind of thought Vito might be someone on this side of the issue too, thinking it too foul, but you never know.

[/ QUOTE ]

The book goes into greater detail on this. The other Dons look down on the Detroit Don as he is always saying this kind of thing. They see the black community as so far below them that it doesn't warrant mention of any kind; they ignore the Detroit Don's foolishness for even bringing up the topic.

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Someone voiced something like that drugs were for animals like n*ggers, and who cared what they did to each other. I kind of thought Vito might be someone on this side of the issue too, thinking it too foul, but you never know.

[/ QUOTE ]

The book goes into greater detail on this. The other Dons look down on the Detroit Don as he is always saying this kind of thing. They see the black community as so far below them that it doesn't warrant mention of any kind; they ignore the Detroit Don's foolishness for even bringing up the topic.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do remember reading that in the book (which is truly better than the movie).

Not to change the subject, but obviously in NY these different ethnic groups were fairly racist, but obviously worked together. Especially the Italians, Jews, and Irish. I wonder why not the african-americans. I mean some of the most famous gangsters were jewish. Were the cultures just "too" different from the black culture?

craig

Fredo, and it's not close.

[Toro]

Frank Pentangelie aka Frankie Five Fingers in II was a great character.

[MonkeeMan]

"Don Corleone, I am honored and grateful that you have invited me to your daughter... 's wedding... on the day of your daughter's wedding. And I hope their first child be a masculine child. I pledge my ever-ending loyalty."

http://www.radiopopolare.it/html/trasmiss/triangolo/gente/luca-brasi.jpg
Luca Brasi

[astroglide]

i love tom hagen and frank pentangeli (the guy who kills himself before testifying)

[miajag81]

Frankie Five Angels is a good pick. My favorite was always Clemenza.

[TheBlueMonster]

[ QUOTE ]
i love tom hagen and frank pentangeli (the guy who kills himself before testifying)

[/ QUOTE ]
yeah man. If I wanna make my friend laugh all I have to do is imitate Pentangeli's voice.
But my favorite would have to be Hyman Roth. It's so cool how Lee Strasberg (acting coach for DeNiro, Brando etc.) plays him in his only movie role.

[CanKid]

Michael

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
Michael

[/ QUOTE ]

Which one? Before shooting Solozzo (sp?) and McClusky or after?

I like the later Michael.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
"Don Corleone, I am honored and grateful that you have invited me to your daughter... 's wedding... on the day of your daughter's wedding. And I hope their first child be a masculine child. I pledge my ever-ending loyalty."

http://www.radiopopolare.it/html/trasmiss/triangolo/gente/luca-brasi.jpg
Luca Brasi

[/ QUOTE ]

Good call. Luca was very funny and cool. Dumb as a brick but incredibly loyal and humble before the Don.

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Don Corleone, I am honored and grateful that you have invited me to your daughter... 's wedding... on the day of your daughter's wedding. And I hope their first child be a masculine child. I pledge my ever-ending loyalty."

http://www.radiopopolare.it/html/trasmiss/triangolo/gente/luca-brasi.jpg
Luca Brasi

[/ QUOTE ]

Good call. Luca was very funny and cool. Dumb as a brick but incredibly loyal and humble before the Don.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have always wondered, did the Don knowingly sacrifice him? I always felt like he knew he was going to be killed.

craig

p.s. I have seen that movie a million times and still wonder.

[astroglide]

i get the impression that a lot of people like luca brasi just because of the memorable name

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
i get the impression that a lot of people like luca brasi just because of the memorable name

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't even know until about 2 years ago it was Luca Brasi..I thought is was Lou Cabrasi. I am a tard.

craig

[samjjones]

Solozzo is a great character. Guy knew what would happen if he failed, and took his shot anyways. He had balls.

[imported_anacardo]

I'm a huge Tom Hagen fan.

[Tron]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm a huge Tom Hagen fan.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too. I think it is becuase I am Irish. And my name is Tom.

[craig r]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm a huge Tom Hagen fan.

[/ QUOTE ]

He really doesn't get enough credit. I mean, if it wasn't for him, Sonny would have screwed everything up by trying to kill all the heads of the families. The Corleones could not have handled that and would have lost bad. Tom explains that the hit on Vito was business not personal. And if it wasn't for Tom, Michael doesn't kill solozzo and mcclusky. Hell, Tom would have made a better Don than Sonny.

craig