3 handed J5s BB

[baronzeus]

villain is a total retard lag, like 60/40/2 2-3 handed (for reference i think i am around 50/38)

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (3 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter (http://www.pokerhand.org)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, Button calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>

[jt1]

I'd just call down. You only have 7 cards at most to fear and you have 15 outs to redraw out on him should he hit. So after getting 3 bet on the flop, I'd call down.

He might go away if you cap and lead the turn but, on the other hand, you might not want him to.

post deleted by WhiteShirt...I'm an idiot

[Lmn55d]

I like flop cap against his range. I wouldn't bet turn though. Most retard lags aren't crazy enough to raise you again with a worse hand (especially after the Q paired a lot of the worse hands that could have went crazy on the flop). If you're planning on calling down (as opposed to calling a turn raise and folding the river), checking the turn becomes even better. And I wouldn't be willing to fold to this guy.

[Surfbullet]

Hey Baron,

I'm all for unbridled aggression, especially 3handed - but what were you trying to accomplish? I don't see him folding a better hand like..ever. There's something to be said for putting the last bet in when you figure him to be on a draw too, but here you A) have a bluff-catcher and B) have no reason to think he's on a draw also.

To me this just looks like spewing.

Surf

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Baron,

I'm all for unbridled aggression, especially 3handed - but what were you trying to accomplish? I don't see him folding a better hand like..ever. There's something to be said for putting the last bet in when you figure him to be on a draw too, but here you A) have a bluff-catcher and B) have no reason to think he's on a draw also.

To me this just looks like spewing.

Surf

[/ QUOTE ]

i mean, it can't be HORRIBLE, since im +EV against paired Aces etc on the flop (pair + fd)...and on the turn, im paying 1 bet against most better hands anyways, and worse hands are checking behind (although better haands that spike 2 pr (AQ, AJ, QJ) might raise the turn)

[Lmn55d]

but not on the turn

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
but not on the turn

[/ QUOTE ]


but im getting raised only by AQ-AJ-QJ and im paying 1 bet against better hands anyhow, and im charging worse hands (TT-77 etc).

FWIW, the reason im posting this hand is because i showed this to another poster and even tho it was standard to me he said he liked just calling the flop 3bet and c/c the turn.

[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]

i mean, it can't be HORRIBLE, since im +EV against paired Aces etc on the flop (pair + fd)...and on the turn, im paying 1 bet against most better hands anyways, and worse hands are checking behind (although better haands that spike 2 pr (AQ, AJ, QJ) might raise the turn)

[/ QUOTE ]

True. But your edge isn't really worth exploiting for EV reasons (you have like 1%?) and getting raised on the turn ruins whatever equity edge you gained on the flop.

What range do you have for him after he bet-3bets the flop? Does capping/leading offer any advantages against that range? This is a serious question, i'm interested on what you expect him to hold given the action.

Surf

[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but not on the turn

[/ QUOTE ]


but im getting raised only by AQ-AJ-QJ and im paying 1 bet against better hands anyhow, and im charging worse hands (TT-77 etc).

FWIW, the reason im posting this hand is because i showed this to another poster and even tho it was standard to me he said he liked just calling the flop 3bet and c/c the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's my standard too. however, this can be really good for metagame purposes if you are going to play with this guy alot - you can fastplay most 2tone boards in hte future and he'll likely give you too much action. If this is the type of image you are fostering then this is a neutral-ev but +variance way to do so.

Also, are you c/fing the river UI?

Surf

[Lmn55d]

[ QUOTE ]
but im getting raised only by AQ-AJ-QJ

[/ QUOTE ]

who says?

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

i mean, it can't be HORRIBLE, since im +EV against paired Aces etc on the flop (pair + fd)...and on the turn, im paying 1 bet against most better hands anyways, and worse hands are checking behind (although better haands that spike 2 pr (AQ, AJ, QJ) might raise the turn)

[/ QUOTE ]

True. But your edge isn't really worth exploiting for EV reasons (you have like 1%?) and getting raised on the turn ruins whatever equity edge you gained on the flop.

What range do you have for him after he bet-3bets the flop? Does capping/leading offer any advantages against that range? This is a serious question, i'm interested on what you expect him to hold given the action.

Surf

[/ QUOTE ]


Ax, KT, KQ, or complete air (something unshowdownable--we've been playing back a lot at eachother)

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but im getting raised only by AQ-AJ-QJ

[/ QUOTE ]

who says?

[/ QUOTE ]

me /images/graemlins/smile.gif ok add AK into that

[Lmn55d]

a6, AT?

[baronzeus]

[ QUOTE ]
a6, AT?

[/ QUOTE ]

just the 2 pr hands imo...

also i think his flop range includes better jacks so that kills my 2 pr equity a bit

[baronzeus]

so i guess the arguments for capping are +EV, im paying bets on the turn anyhow, and i have gain huge amounts of $$$ when ahead.

the arguments against are that my +EV is v. small, im likely behind, and i dont want to put in 2 bets on the turn. also, i give up a bet when i hit on the turn sometimes.

[Lmn55d]

wait...don't you expect him to bet a worse hand than yours if you check? If so I don't really understand your logic for betting since you only expect him to raise better hands (and only 2 pair hands at that)

[Lmn55d]

you dont have to bet turn when you cap. Also there's a slight chance a flop cap/turn check line will make him check behind a better jack on the turn. Not too significant but something to think about

[StellarWind]

Cap the flop because it's +EV based on up to 14 outs plus a real chance to have the best hand.

Check the turn because you got a very bad card and betting accomplishes nothing.

[jt1]

[ QUOTE ]
Cap the flop because it's +EV based on up to 14 outs plus a real chance to have the best hand.

Check the turn because you got a very bad card and betting accomplishes nothing.


[/ QUOTE ]


For some reason, I thought that you had to bet turn if you capped flop.