Whats my Line?

Villain is fairly new to the table but i have not seen him make any fishy plays over a 300 hand sample.

Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 2: allen_all_in ( $15.25 )
Seat 3: Villain ( $82.60 )
Seat 4: Hollis83 ( $105.75 )
Seat 5: ScottishAOD ( $98.89 )
Seat 6: Hero ( $41.10 )
Seat 1: saleen337 ( $22.50 )
saleen337 posts small blind [$0.25].
allen_all_in posts big blind [$0.50].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ A /images/graemlins/heart.gif 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif ]
Villain calls [$0.50].
>You have options at Table 64808 (6 max) (No DP) Table!.
Hero calls [$0.50].
saleen337 calls [$0.25].
allen_all_in checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ K /images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif ]
saleen337 checks.
allen_all_in checks.
Villain bets [$1].
Hero raises [$2].
saleen337 folds.
allen_all_in folds.
Villain calls [$1].
** Dealing Turn ** [ T /images/graemlins/spade.gif ]
Villain checks.
Hero bets [$4].
Villain calls [$4].
** Dealing River ** [ Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif ]
Villain bets [$10].

I have ~35$ left, Whats my line?

I would re-raise him the max. What beats you?

A Straight flush can still beat me

[TheRempel]

The flop raise is horrible. The river bet could easily be a jack high flush. With your fairly passive play on his hand, your opponent could believe that queen was a good card for you.Raise as much as you think he'll call everytime. Whatever small percentage of the time he has the straight flush kick your cat.

Just call, he would probably only call a reraise with a straight flush. Still his bet on the river doesn't make any sense, why bet a str8 flush? He knows you will bet the river anyway. And why pretend a str8 flush he knows you would at least call? So he has to put as much money in as he would if checked.
Bad play on the flop, either call and be prepared to fold if he pot bets a paired board on turn, or raise him more on flop (3-4$).

Screw that - Raise it for value. Many people will call with worse hands.

[TheRempel]

I shouldn't post when I'm half awake. I meant that the Qh was a good card for him given your passive play, since the only thing that beats a jack-high flush here would be the nut flush, and you certainly haven't played it like a nut flush.

[Lafortezza]

[ QUOTE ]
Just call, he would probably only call a reraise with a straight flush. Still his bet on the river doesn't make any sense, why bet a str8 flush? He knows you will bet the river anyway. And why pretend a str8 flush he knows you would at least call? So he has to put as much money in as he would if checked.
Bad play on the flop, either call and be prepared to fold if he pot bets a paired board on turn, or raise him more on flop (3-4$).

[/ QUOTE ]I don't think I've ever folded the nut flush or nut house fearing a straight flush or quads. Especially at the lower limits. Maybe this post above was a joke?

Raise more on the flop, raise as much as you think he will call on the river, I usually pot it in that situation.

min raise~

Tex

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I've ever folded the nut flush or nut house fearing a straight flush or quads. Especially at the lower limits.

[/ QUOTE ]

The last sentence is the key, lower limits and max buyin games. But with very deep stacks, even though such situations are rare, you should be prepared to fold such hands or at the very least the amounts involved could cause you a losing month. A losing hand is a losing hand no matter how unlikely the nuts may be.

But there is a situation involving nut full house versus quads where you are going to get screwed almost everytime unless your table sense is very keen. If you flop the nut full with like QQ on a flop of Q66 and you slowplay the flop and then raise even just a min raise on the turn, and two players call, then it is easy to think they are fish each with only a 6 or maybe Q6. But if one of them then bets into you on the river or raises you when they have position and a card higher than a Q did not fall, then you are surely beat even though 2 callers on the turn would make you think there is no way either one could have 66. The explanation for your opponents' behaviour is either that 1 of them is a total fish overcalling with an overpair like KK/AA, or that they are colluding in a somewhat sophisticated manner. I've seen both at high stakes. Again at lower stakes online, you are probably just going to payoff everytime assuming you both did not start out with considerably more than the original max buyin.

Regarding the OP's hand, slowplaying a flopped nut flush isn't bad and is often the way to win more than just a pittance in an unraised pot especially. If they have a set they are a dog to fill, and if they have a worse flush they often put you on a set and keep coming. Depending on the player you can even occasionally decide to keep playing soft on the turn, provided that, you don't allow the opponent to underbet such a small amount that he would be pricing himself in correctly to fill. In that case you must raise everytime.

[Marnixvdb]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I've ever folded the nut flush or nut house fearing a straight flush or quads. Especially at the lower limits.

[/ QUOTE ]

The last sentence is the key, lower limits and max buyin games. But with very deep stacks, even though such situations are rare, you should be prepared to fold such hands or at the very least the amounts involved could cause you a losing month. A losing hand is a losing hand no matter how unlikely the nuts may be.


[/ QUOTE ]

I am very surprised by your last sentence. If someone pots the river and it's very unlikely he has the nuts, you aren't folding getting 2:1, are you? 33% is not 'very unlikely'. And if the money involved makes you fear a losing month and you care about that, you'd either be playing above your limit or out of your comfort zone, neither of which is a good idea.

I do agree though that deep stacks dictate a call more often than a raise, since opponent is much less likely to call a reraise with a worse hand. But only because opponent will fear your reraise more, since it tells him you arent worrying about a 3bet.

In this case, I'd repot. Money is too shallow to worry about the straight flush and the limit is too low for opponent to only call with the nuts after you repot.

Marnix

[BluffTHIS!]

You are right that just calling is indicated as opposed to raising in such a situation. And even with deep stacks for small money I am mostly calling. But when an opponent who has called your turn raise now bets in front of you or with position raises you on the river, and the river card did not change the nuts, then you should have a queasy feeling. If he is not a LAG then you should strongly consider folding. If you read hands well but fail to act accordingly then that cannot be good play.

Well this is how it played out:

Hero min raises to 20$
Villain insta all-in.
Hero Folds.

I dont see him pushing with a Jack high flush or lower. The insta all-in convinced me that he had to have a straight flush since i dont see him doing this with any other hand, considering his previous non-fishy play. I usually would never play this passive, nor would i generally be scared of a str8 flush vs a nut flush, however, I truely believed i was beat.

[Filip]

[ QUOTE ]
min raise~

Tex

[/ QUOTE ]

No, for meta reasons that is bad.

You should have called, because there is a big chance he put you on a trips/two pair or a lower flush. Still I don't see the point raisin him all in. I believe there is 14$ in the pot after the turn bets. Now he bets 10$ which means you can raise him your remaining 34.60. You bet 34.6 to a 24$ pot. Will he call you with a lower flush or worse? Yes, if he's stupid. Could he have a str8 flush? If the the chances are even you should just call, cause you're risking more than you're winning.
I still say a clear call. 10$ to see a 24$ pot, and it would not be as stupid of him betting the flop with any flush as calling a reraise. One reason for him betting 10$ into a a 14$ pot is that he otherwise might face a 14$ bet and he wouldn't know if it's nut flush, a lower flush or a bluff. If he gets reraised he knows (almost) for sure. So know he's bet could indicate a lot more than a str8 flush, and the pot odds are huge for you to call!