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Spicymoose
11-24-2005, 11:53 AM
Here is a video I made of my play at a 5/10 table. I played for about an hour and 15 minutes, and switched tables midway through, but both tables were pretty juicy. The 75 minutes of video has been edited to remove all hands I wasn't involved in, so it is currently only 15 minutes. Action packed, and definetly some mistakes to point out. Only 13 MBs.

Let me know what you think. If there is any interest in this thread, I will post TStone's comments after I get a few replies.

http://homepages.nyu.edu/~dpg221/SpicyVideo.avi

hemstock
11-24-2005, 12:58 PM
You have QTo in the BB and you raise against SB. Flop comes rag, he bets you raise you call. Why did you call the turn donk bet though?

You have 77 on the bb and everyone limps. Why do you raise? I think you can just check and try to hit a set.

hemstock
11-24-2005, 01:01 PM
You have J3 and you flop a boat HU against the sb. Why raise the flop? Why not leave him fire again the turn?

Other than that, I am amazed by the number of fools playing 5/10.

Spicymoose
11-24-2005, 01:03 PM
[ QUOTE ]
You have QTo in the BB and you raise against SB. Flop comes rag, he bets you raise you call. Why did you call the turn donk bet though?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was getting 5:1 to call, plus another bet on the river. I had picked up a gutshot with 4 perfect outs, plus another 3 pretty good outs from my overcard, and 3 crappy, but sometimes good middle card outs. I think weighted I get at least 7 outs.

[ QUOTE ]
You have 77 on the bb and everyone limps. Why do you raise? I think you can just check and try to hit a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...e=0#Post4012675 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4012675&an=0&page=0#Post 4012675)

Spicymoose
11-24-2005, 01:05 PM
[ QUOTE ]
You have J3 and you flop a boat HU against the sb. Why raise the flop? Why not leave him fire again the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]
I was thinking of waiting until the turn, which may be correct. I thought since there was a flush draw out there, I could generate more action with my not too strong flop raise. I think I kill action a lot by raising on the turn, and thought I might be able to go to war somewhere if I just raised the flop. Waiting till the turn is good too though. I am not sure which is better.


[ QUOTE ]
Other than that, I am amazed by the number of fools playing 5/10.

[/ QUOTE ]

I table select good, but yes, there are plenty of idiots to find at 5/10.

flawless_victory
11-24-2005, 01:09 PM
dude, this link is not helping me.

Spicymoose
11-24-2005, 01:23 PM
[ QUOTE ]
dude, this link is not helping me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno why it isn't, it should work. Maybe type the url into your web browser? If nothing works, you can download it at:

http://s41.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3JBQR5DN5YUS81ZQSSYH5XTWZ7

where it will be hosted for a few more days I think. This video is 25 minutes, and includes a bunch of notes I wrote asking TStone questions. Other video is just nonstop play for 15 minutes. Both are the same 75 minutes of play though.

gehrig
11-24-2005, 03:05 PM
1) i dont try to steal with k4o vs that laggy bb. you dont win without a showdown often enough

2) QTo in the BB vs SB. raising the flop is just spewing, villain is never folding before the river here

3) i just call KQo on the button with a CC'er already. i dunno what's right though, it probably doesnt matter

4) AQ on a KJ234 board, i value bet the river a lot. this villain probably would've raised any ace preflop though

5) 99 on a Jxx flop, waiting for the turn might be right, but i always jam the flop

6) A6o in the BB, button raises, calling station CCs, i never fold there, especially with the button being so passive postflop

7) i just give up with J high on the AKKQ board, the queen helps anything he'd peel with

other preflop stuff:

a7o on the button when a calling station limps in the hijack. dont fold, you have the best hand and the best position

q9o on the button with two limpers i call. you limped jt in the same spot before, q9 is better

ats in the bb i dont threebet with the cc'er

raising 7s in the bb when the whole table has limped is insane

marching_on_together
11-24-2005, 03:13 PM
Cheers for that, it's always useful to see how decent players play a range of hands. Most of it looks pretty standard.

One questionable fold is with Q9s in the SB 3-handed you folded to the buttons raise (a 60/29/1.3 guy) with a tightish player in the BB. I think you can raise this one even out of position.

(sorry just noticed it's not three handed rather raise, fold, fold still q9s is a reasonable hand here, you don't like playing this at all here?)

Guy McSucker
11-24-2005, 03:31 PM
[ QUOTE ]
You have QTo in the BB and you raise against SB. Flop comes rag, he bets you raise you call. Why did you call the turn donk bet though?


[/ QUOTE ]

Hehe, I saw this one. The mouse pointer hovers over the "Fold" button and I'm screaming "CALL FOR THE LOVE OF GOD YOU'VE JUST PICKED UP A GUTSHOT MAN!!!!!"

He has seven to ten outs there. Easy call.

Guy.

supersub
11-24-2005, 04:40 PM
very interesting to watch.
I think you played very well over all.
i would not have three bet KQo and i would have played a few other hands different but that may be a matter of personal style.

If I look hard for anything to be critical about it should be that you didnīt let the 59/26 guy bet enough. He wanted to get his money into the pot but once someone else bet, he was fairly resonable.

Also, you seem pretty conservative in the blinds. you may be on to something /images/graemlins/smile.gif.Would you mind to share your stats for SB and BB. I myself would for sure have played a few of the hands you folded.

please share the notes you got from your coach.

Spicymoose
11-24-2005, 04:44 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Also, you seem pretty conservative in the blinds. you may be on to something /images/graemlins/smile.gif.Would you mind to share your stats for SB and BB. I myself would for sure have played a few of the hands you folded.


[/ QUOTE ]

I am definetly not on to something. I really need to, and am actively trying to get looser in the blinds.

Folded SB to steal: 81%
Folded BB to steal: 58%
Folded BB to steal HU: 53%

Note, these stats are from about 16k hands, and the last 3k or so I have been attempting to loosen up quite a bit.

Spicymoose
11-24-2005, 04:59 PM
[ QUOTE ]
1) i dont try to steal with k4o vs that laggy bb. you dont win without a showdown often enough

[/ QUOTE ]
Although I have a loose BB (60 VPIP after 55 hands), I think K4 is just too strong from the button to not steal.

[ QUOTE ]
2) QTo in the BB vs SB. raising the flop is just spewing, villain is never folding before the river here

[/ QUOTE ]

I raise preflop with QTo from the BB (52/8/1.3 after 90) after he completes. He bets a 853 twotone flop. I think he could easily be taking a shot with nothing. It is a blind battle, and he certainly could fold before the river. I might be ahead, and if not, I probably have 6 outs in a 5 BB pot, plus implied if I hit.

[ QUOTE ]

3) i just call KQo on the button with a CC'er already. i dunno what's right though, it probably doesnt matter

[/ QUOTE ]
These guys are really loose, and have much worse hands. I think it does matter, and that KQ has too much equity, along with the benefits we get from our position and initiative to not reraise.

[ QUOTE ]
4) AQ on a KJ234 board, i value bet the river a lot. this villain probably would've raised any ace preflop though

[/ QUOTE ]
I still like inducing here. Plus I save bets when he doesn't bet his better hand.


[ QUOTE ]
5) 99 on a Jxx flop, waiting for the turn might be right, but i always jam the flop

[/ QUOTE ]
I am not assured that he is betting again on the turn with two callers, plus there are many over card scare cards. Plus, I would rather raise on a cheaper street, incase I am behind to a jack.


[ QUOTE ]
6) A6o in the BB, button raises, calling station CCs, i never fold there, especially with the button being so passive postflop

[/ QUOTE ]
I really need to loosen up in the blinds...

[ QUOTE ]
7) i just give up with J high on the AKKQ board, the queen helps anything he'd peel with

[/ QUOTE ]
I hated that hand. Turn bet was horrible.

[ QUOTE ]

a7o on the button when a calling station limps in the hijack. dont fold, you have the best hand and the best position

[/ QUOTE ]
I think this is close to a raise, but I am not sure. Blinds were loose I think, which would discourage me from doing it.

[ QUOTE ]
q9o on the button with two limpers i call. you limped jt in the same spot before, q9 is better

[/ QUOTE ]
I limped JTo with 3 limpers, and I think it would be much less profitable with 2. In these big multiway pots, I think JTo is a better hand then Q9o, as we are winning far less often when we hit a pair. If this means anything, PokerStove says JTo has 25% equity against 4 completely random hands, while Q9o has only 22%.

[ QUOTE ]

ats in the bb i dont threebet with the cc'er

[/ QUOTE ]
cold caller was fishy, and I think I have big value with this hand. Plus I wanted initiative. Maybe a call is right, but TStone liked the 3-bet!

[ QUOTE ]
raising 7s in the bb when the whole table has limped is insane

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree, see my thread on the matter.


Thanks for your replies,
Spicymoose

gehrig
11-24-2005, 06:50 PM
[ QUOTE ]
He bets a 853 twotone flop. I think he could easily be taking a shot with nothing. It is a blind battle, and he certainly could fold before the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

i dunno, its my experience that when a player with those stats donks there it's always something he's taking to showdown or a draw he's seeing five cards with. i could be wrong though

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is close to a raise, but I am not sure. Blinds were loose I think, which would discourage me from doing it.


[/ QUOTE ]
i like limping there, i think

[ QUOTE ]
cold caller was fishy, and I think I have big value with this hand. Plus I wanted initiative. Maybe a call is right, but TStone liked the 3-bet!

[/ QUOTE ]
i dont think initiative is worth anything there. with the fishy button in the pot you're not going to win without a showdown that much, and without initiative you can trap the button when you cr the initial pf raiser

Spicymoose
11-24-2005, 07:09 PM
[ QUOTE ]
i dont think initiative is worth anything there. with the fishy button in the pot you're not going to win without a showdown that much

[/ QUOTE ]

I highly disagree

axioma
11-24-2005, 07:22 PM
46o in the BB.

i make this call getting 7-1, with good relative position on the PFR those times we hit the flop hard.

TStoneMBD
11-24-2005, 07:38 PM
i dont remember seeing the A7o hand where the player limps in the HJ, i definitely definitely raise this on the button.

i also like limping Q9o behind bad limpers. you should try it out.

probably didnt see these hands because you folded preflop.

surfdoc
11-25-2005, 01:05 AM
Thanks for putting that up. Awesome to watch although your hitting every flop or rivering the card you needed irritated me. Just kidding. Well played.

I just have a couple questions not really related to the hands since those were all pretty well discussed. Did you edit out all the preflop stuff where the decisions were super easy? I think I maybe want to see it all. Also, is that your usual screen name? I play in this game a ton and have never seen you.

Spicymoose
11-25-2005, 08:17 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for putting that up. Awesome to watch although your hitting every flop or rivering the card you needed irritated me. Just kidding. Well played.

I just have a couple questions not really related to the hands since those were all pretty well discussed. Did you edit out all the preflop stuff where the decisions were super easy? I think I maybe want to see it all. Also, is that your usual screen name? I play in this game a ton and have never seen you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did edit out some of the preflop decisions that were super easy, but I am pretty sure every decision I edited out was ridiculously easy. Even the ones that I thought were easy, but that some people may not, I left in. This is my usual screenname, but I just move over to Party about 15 days ago, and I am inbetween 3/6 and 5/10 now.

11-25-2005, 09:18 AM
QTo : Is raising that donkbet with overcards standard for you? I usually just call the flop and fold turn UI. Mixing it up by raising like you did, when it's likely to give me a free SD vs. passive opponents.

A3o : button limps and you fold A3o in the SB, I don't fold there. Sometimes call, sometimes raise depending on the BB.

J6s : you bet an AKK flop and get called, I wouldn't fire again on the turn.

A7o : UTG limps and you fold A7o OTB, I raise.

A5o : on the CO 5handed, I usually raise.

ATs : Y_Do_U_Ask raises UTG, Button coldcalls, you 3bet from BB, I just call.

J3o : flop FH, I call flop and raise turn because this player will likely bet into you on the turn again.

Spicymoose
11-25-2005, 09:39 AM
[ QUOTE ]
QTo : Is raising that donkbet with overcards standard for you? I usually just call the flop and fold turn UI. Mixing it up by raising like you did, when it's likely to give me a free SD vs. passive opponents.

[/ QUOTE ]
I notice a lot of people sometimes take shots with garbage, and I might even fold to my flop raise. Other times I get the free card. Calling occasionally is fine to mix it up, but I think I normally raise.


[ QUOTE ]
A3o : button limps and you fold A3o in the SB, I don't fold there. Sometimes call, sometimes raise depending on the BB.

[/ QUOTE ]
Leak found, and plugged. I didn't really know how to play it, but now I think I might. I complete, rather then raise. I guess with a super tight BB I might raise.

[ QUOTE ]
J6s : you bet an AKK flop and get called, I wouldn't fire again on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
leak found, and plugged.

[ QUOTE ]
A7o : UTG limps and you fold A7o OTB, I raise.

[/ QUOTE ]
leak found, and plugged.

[ QUOTE ]
A5o : on the CO 5handed, I usually raise.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think this might be a bit too loose, unless you have tight people on the button and in the blinds. I was informed by a bunch of people that around A7 or K9 should be the lowest you should be stealing with. Maybe I am wrong though.


[ QUOTE ]
ATs : Y_Do_U_Ask raises UTG, Button coldcalls, you 3bet from BB, I just call.

[/ QUOTE ]
I like raising because there is a decent chance I have the best hand, and I want initiative. Calling would be ok too, but I think raising might have more value.

[ QUOTE ]
J3o : flop FH, I call flop and raise turn because this player will likely bet into you on the turn again.

[/ QUOTE ]
I thought about doing that, and it indeed might be best. My thoughts were that there was a twoflush out there, and that my flop raise could mean a flush draw or even just nothing since it was HU. I was hoping for him to 3-bet, so I could pop him on the turn. Or, I was hoping he would check raise me on the turn. I didn't want the action to go bet-call, bet-raise, because I thought I might kill action. This still may be the best route though.


Thanks for your input,
Spicymoose

antifish225
11-25-2005, 11:30 AM
Great video - interesting how most of the comments are clustered around a few hands - I watched the video before reading the replys and all of the hands that I had written down were already talked about - Very interested in why re-raising your ATs against in the BB vs a pretty solid UTG raiser is EV+, I would be calling this as we are in an easily dominated hand, without position agianst a fairly solid UTG raiser.....I call this and play cauitiously depending on how favorable the flop is - in this case how would you play a board like:
A rag rag - no spades?
K rag rag - one spade?
Curious to see how you proceed post flop.

BTW - thanks for posting - great idea! AF

Spicymoose
11-25-2005, 11:54 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Very interested in why re-raising your ATs against in the BB vs a pretty solid UTG raiser is EV+, I would be calling this as we are in an easily dominated hand, without position agianst a fairly solid UTG raiser.....I call this and play cauitiously depending on how favorable the flop is - in this case how would you play a board like:
A rag rag - no spades?
K rag rag - one spade?
Curious to see how you proceed post flop.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think normally I would call preflop, but in this situation, I think I had an extra edge. I wouldn't call the UTG raiser solid, he was 35/15/1.65 after a huge sample, and although while he isn't bad, he definetly had some problems. The Button was a huge reason for the reraise though. He was 52/10/1.5 after 80, and way too fishy. Against a reasonable range of holdings here, I think I have over 40% equity! Furthermore, I need the initiative, or otherwise I will lose a lot of hands where I was actually ahead of UTG.

If an A comes, I bet until raised, and then call down. If a K comes with a spade, I will probably peel one, and then be done with it.

Spicymoose
11-25-2005, 12:07 PM
Here are the comments I got. You guys did awesome at finding the leaks. I appreciate both the fact that I got complements on my good play, and the fact that the problems I had were pretty easy for others to spot out, meaning I had some apparant leaks that are now hopefully gone.

In the video TStone got, there were also some questions I had asked him in a notepad, so don't get confused if he answers something that you can't find anywhere. Overall, I think I learned a lot from this, and I highly recommend it to everyone. TStone did a great job, and although I had a hard time forking over the money, it was well worth the investment.

Here are his comments:


SB 52/8/1 openraises you call in the BB with QT flop is 8xx, he bets you raise

-i love 3betting these hands preflop. you have a strong hand and would rather control the tempo then be put in spots like this. after youve just called preflop i think you should fold this flop. raising is better than calling however. this isnt an easy situation however, i spoke with some good players and i heard different thoughts on this. also realize that at 5/10 the rake in this hand lessens your pot odds and raising or calling is just bleeding money. if you raise however you should check the turn and take the free card.

-i like the river call in the KJ hand. raising might be considered expert to eliminate the guy representing an overpair, but he is very aggressive for his stats along with very loose. its quite possible you have him beat but if he has a larger pair than yours hes probably calling 2 anyway.

-3bet the KQo preflop yes. i also bet the KQ on that rag board because this game is very passive youll see a river card for free.

-i wouldnt bet the KKJ flop if sb was out definitely not. that board is terrible for you with 2 limpers. if they are tight definitely no. stealing pots is overrated.

-you want the tag behind you. its better that way. you want the limpers in front of you so you can isolate them and you want the tags behind you so they dont raise in front of you forcing you to fold otherwise profitable hands.

you raise AQo from the SB, flop is J24, you bet and get a couple callers. turn is a 5. you bet river is a king you check call.

-bet the AQ flop, bet the turn as well. you have a gutshot and need to see the river. the game is passive. i also checkcall this river because the guy is a total idiot.

you raise some limpers with 99 flop is Jxx you bet they call, turn is a blank you bet they call river is an ace

-in the 99 hand there is no reason to value bet this river. betting accomplishes nothing and worse pairs will fold now that the ace hit.

CO limper, SB completes you check in the BB with T8, flop is 963r.

-after the sb checks i would definitely bet this. you have alot of pot equity and this is a good steal flop.

-i like stealing J5s on the button against a 27/11/1.3 BB.

you raise 44 in the HJ with a 48/12/.6 in the BB

-dont raise this there is really no value in such weak hands especially since you cant take it down preflop. i also dont like betting the TJQ flop because its almost impossible you get a fold out of him and almost all players will bet the river after youved checked the turn. you cant realize your equity.

-in the hand with 84o and the SB completse and you check, if the SB checks the flop i will often take a stab at it if its not very coordinated. i think it depends on my image though. if ive been caught stealing some pots i wont bet it, but if im showing strong hands i will.

3 very loose players limp in front of you and you limp on the button with JTo.

-I like this limp. they are so loose and so bad your hand has alot of vlaue.

loose SB completes, you check in the BB with J3s

-i love raising these hands becuase it generates alot of folding equity for you. it also keeps your opponents actions pure. he wont be able to bet flops when hes missed because youve raised preflop. it takes away alot of his folding equity and it builds a pot in position against a terrible player which usually leads to good things.

51/9 limps on the button, you fold A3o in the SB

-complete with this. he raises enough preflop that he is raising Ax hands. you have the only ace at the table right now and there is definitely no reason to be folding.

UTG limps and you have K9o in the HJ

-fold this. K9o is a bad hand. you were talking about openraising this if the UTG player folds. K9o is not a hand you want to be stealing with from the HJ. you have tags behind you who are going to 3bet you alot and you have a very loose player in the BB. you have no folding equity, a bad hand and alot of risk.

47/11/.5 opens on the button, SB 51/9 calls you fold A6o in the BB

-definitely call this. your hand is huge in this situation. defend your blinds more.

against a 59/9 openlimping button i call with 87o. much worse than that and i fold.

you openraise J6s from the button BB a 27/11/1.3 calls. flop is AKK you bet he calls, turn is a Q you bet

-after he calls the flop you need to give up on this hand regardless of what hits the turn. its just far too likely youre beat. once the queen falls you definitely must must check this. the queen completes any gutshot draws and he is certainly not folding. after the river hits its another king and it looked like you were going to bet it. give up man hes got you beat.

sb completes you check in the bb with 68o flop is J9x he checks you bet

-yes bet this. you have a gutshot and no high card strength. pick it up.

you openraise Q9o in CO BB (50/8) calls. flop is 9xx he bets you call, turn is x he bets you raise

-i like waiting for the turn to raise in this hand as well. its a tough spot tho because your hand is vulnerable to overcards. he might checkcall alot of turns is what i mean. still though i think your hand is strong enough to wait. if its any weaker i wouldnt.

-you played the TT hand well. definitely raise that flop. dont wait for the turn. no reason to value bet the river with a diamond and king hitting.

UTG 43/17/2 limps, you fold 9Ts in the HJ

-definitely play this. 9Ts is a monster at this loose table. i would raise it if the BB was tighter but since he is 57vpip i limp it.

you fold in the BB with 46o getting 9:1

-i dont call this. thats a bad hand

-in the 23o hand i wouldnt checkcall that under any means

-easy fold with the QTo facing a CO steal

HJ 35/15/1.6 open raises, BT 52/10 calls, youre in BB with ATs and 3bet

-i like the 3bet. you have alot of preflop equity with the terrible player coldcalling

-dont raise sb completors with hands as bad as J5o unless you have a good reason to.

-fold 57o in the SB facing a tag BB, thats a bad hand especially in a 2/5 structure.

4 limpers to you in the BB and you raise 77

-this is a really close situation and i spoke with some very good posters about this. there was alot of debate but i think raising is correct. we did an equity calculation and it turns out that raising in this situation generates a .25SB profit for us. thats huge. nice raise imo. this would make a great hush thread.

2 limpers you raise AJs from SB bb folds limpers call. flop is Qxx 2 hearts you bet and get 1 caller

-i like following through again the turn if you miss against this 1 caller. if you werent going to follow through on the turn against 1 player you shouldnt have bet the flop.

-in the J3 hand i would normally slow play this but the SB is so aggressive (47/20/2 after 100) that he might play back at you hoping youre stealing. still though i would call and raise turn.

Guy McSucker
11-25-2005, 12:09 PM
[ QUOTE ]

I think normally I would call preflop, but in this situation, I think I had an extra edge. I wouldn't call the UTG raiser solid, he was 35/15/1.65 after a huge sample


[/ QUOTE ]

Y_Do_U_Ask is certainly more solid that most 5-10ers. I would guess she (it's a female avatar isn't it? must be a woman then!) is at least a little position aware so a UTG raise in the context of 15% PFR means a hand better than ATs most of the time.

I also don't buy the argument about initiative. You're acting first on the flop. If you want initiative you can get it by betting.

This doesn't mean I think 3-betting ATs is wrong. It's a tiny mistake at the very worst (depends on UTGs hand range), it disguises your holding to some extent, and provides cover for your monster hands.

Guy.

antifish225
11-25-2005, 12:10 PM
Thanks for the perspective - I was not taking into account the buttons stats - which I guess I should - AF

TStoneMBD
11-25-2005, 01:11 PM
to clarify, spicy correctly pointed out that i misread the action in the QT hand as the SB completed then called a raise. he didnt raise preflop himself.

in the 44 hand he raised from the CO, not from the HJ.

let me know if anybody disagrees with any of my comments im open to discussion.

antifish225
11-25-2005, 01:23 PM
[
Y_Do_U_Ask is certainly more solid that most 5-10ers. I would guess she (it's a female avatar isn't it? must be a woman then!) is at least a little position aware so a UTG raise in the context of 15% PFR means a hand better than ATs most of the time.

Agreed - have 2K hands with him/her - little loose preflop but solid post flop - that is part of the reason I would not have 3 bet this....

Wynton
11-25-2005, 04:58 PM
Unfortuantely, I didn't take careful notes when I watched, as I was in a bit of a hurry. I did write down your starting hands, when there was at least a question in my mind about your play. Those hands - many (if not most) of which have been mentioned by others, include when you started with:

A10s
KJ
KQ
108
A3
A6
77
J3

The only hands I really remember are J3 (where you flopped 2 pair or a boat). I believe that decision is pretty darn close, whether to raise flop or wait till turn (if not river).

77: where you raised after bunch of limpers. I really don't feel comfortable doing that, but I can see that decision is pretty close.

Couple of the other hands I know were pf folds, from sb (like with A3). The rest I just can't remember, other than that I had some question or another about them.

11-25-2005, 09:37 PM
This is from memory, so forgive me if I'm wrong. But a 60/25 guy limps in CO(?). Button (?) raises and is something like 50/12. SB folds and you 3bet in the BB with A8s.

I don't think I see much good in 3betting here. If anyone can give me a better argument than "cause you're gonna flop trips," I'd be interested to hear it.

Saborion
11-25-2005, 11:01 PM
[ QUOTE ]
This is from memory, so forgive me if I'm wrong. But a 60/25 guy limps in CO(?). Button (?) raises and is something like 50/12. SB folds and you 3bet in the BB with A8s.

I don't think I see much good in 3betting here. If anyone can give me a better argument than "cause you're gonna flop trips," I'd be interested to hear it.

[/ QUOTE ]
First hand of the video. I'm also curious about the preflop 3-bet. It feels as though the 3-bet is pretty much EV neutral (is it?). If it is, isn't a call more +EV?

Spicymoose
11-25-2005, 11:13 PM
[ QUOTE ]
This is from memory, so forgive me if I'm wrong. But a 60/25 guy limps in CO(?). Button (?) raises and is something like 50/12. SB folds and you 3bet in the BB with A8s.

I don't think I see much good in 3betting here. If anyone can give me a better argument than "cause you're gonna flop trips," I'd be interested to hear it.

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I am glad you commented on this hand, since noone else did. After doing a bit of PokerStoving, I realize I don't have the equity I thought I had. If they both call my 3-bet, I am about equity neutral here (just about exactly 33% equity). If Button decides to cap, then I only have about 29% equity. I raised mainly for initiative, and because I thought I could muscle them out of better hands. I think calling is probably best though. I am suprised noone else commented on this before, because if raising is best, I think it is only slightly best, and calling may yet be better.

11-26-2005, 12:32 AM
have any other SH videos been posted recently? they are very helpful but the search is horrible.

Spicymoose
11-26-2005, 12:33 AM
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have any other SH videos been posted recently? they are very helpful but the search is horrible.

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There are a few, but not many. I will be posting more soon, and regularly. I encourage others to do so as well. I will be posting soon about how and why to do this.

11-26-2005, 12:34 AM
ok, thank you very much. even though i'm at a much lower level it's still nice to compare plays.

spydog
11-26-2005, 06:39 AM
Nice video spicy.

A8s (first hand) - I'm not 3-betting this preflop. I'd rather call and checkraise a lot of flops. I think 3-betting this 3 ways will force you to have the best hand by showdown against loose players. It's close though.

Q9s in SB - Facing a raise from 29% pfr, I call this from the SB. I don't like 3-betting because the PFR could cap any hand and make it expensive. So, I just call this preflop and checkraise any favorable flop. It's an easier preflop call if the BB was horrible, which he wasn't. The BB was a TAG, so folding might be better.

K4o - I don't steal with this against a 60/29 player in the BB.

QTo - Enough has been said about this.

KQo - This would be a rare coldcall for me. I would fire again on the turn. You have represented a big hand preflop and the pot is offering 8:1. I think they fold enough here and it's doubtful you are getting checkraised with the board being so bland.

K9s - You raised from CO and got called by 56/29 guy. Flop comes AKx. I think this is a good spot to check the flop. Even he isn't calling the flop/turn with worse hands and he'll play back at you with a better one. Check and you might get more value from his bluff tendencies.

A4o - 56/29 guy raises from CO. Bad player CC in button. I call A4o in BB.

44 - Not crazy about raising this from CO with loose blinds.

A6o - I would call this 3-way from a button steal whose 11 pfr

J6s - I would check behind on this AKKQ turn

T9s - folding after limper from MP is no good. I raise if blinds are tight and limp if they aren't.

64o - I call in BB getting 9:1. I call any 2 cards that can make flushes or straights getting these kind of odds.

ATs - after UTG raise and CC I just call from BB.

77 - I don't raise pf from BB after everyone limps

J3o - I probably call this flopped full house and raise the turn.